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I have antenna been coming up in a

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minute with the creator of the fantastic

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movie third eye spies a true story of

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CIA psychics buying and I could leave it

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at that that would be a good level one

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introduction but I'm not in the level

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one as you know I'm into level three

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third I spy Stargate program CIA 1970s

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spying on the Russians using psychics

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before they spy on us the whole psychic

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spying program is really important

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because it shatters but mine equals

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brain crazy paradigm that we live in

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these guys were way past that they knew

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that consciousness extends beyond our

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brain because they were doing it

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everyday in practice but at the same

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time they were engaged in some pretty

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dark MKULTRA mind control kind of stuff

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now on one hand that isn't even

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controversial in the movie you'll hear

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them talk about their boss dr. Sidney

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Gottlieb the US version of Joseph

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Mengele is some people calling Joseph

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Mengele you know infamous Nazi doctors

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well in the movie they kind of play that

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off as oh you know we didn't really

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agree with what Sydney was doing well

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you might not have agreed with them but

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Sydney was the tempo of the thing and he

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was the boss of this operation too

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because all this stuff including the

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psychic spying program fell under this

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umbrella of mind control and that fell

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under this range of programs over 150

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programs called MKULTRA so how about

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that for more than level one and finally

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and you'll hear this in the interview

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although we don't cover it completely

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you got the whole UFO thing these

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psychic spies joseph mechanical Ingo

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Swann others they're remote viewing Mars

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they're remote viewing the dark side of

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the Moon and they're saying hey there's

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people there there's bases there there's

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technology there there's aliens there

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and anyone around this program will tell

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you if Ingo Swann said it it's true he

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didn't lie he didn't make stuff up so

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that kind of puts us in a tough level-3

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position what are we supposed to do

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believe Jimmy Carter when he says that

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these remote viewers found a downed

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plane that no one else could find in

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Africa on the other hand were so

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do not believe and totally discredit

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their other findings well now you get a

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sense of why it's so hard but at the

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same time necessary to get past the

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level one here's a great new movie which

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it is here's the best movie that's ever

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been made about Stargate which it is

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here's a great filmmaker who's done a

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great job Lance munguia which he is but

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you might also understand why don't

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agree with them a lot of stuff and why

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there's this underlying tension

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throughout this interview here are some

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clips from the show and I might jump in

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after some of these clips too because I

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can't resist adding some more level 3

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stuff the storyline that the movie

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follows is that Russell Targ who is of

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course one of the original principal

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investigators in this Stargate remote

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viewing program and he's going to

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reconnect with all these people that

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have been a part of this amazing program

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he literally showed up at my door with a

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big box full of documents that were

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marked classified and then that had been

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released and he starts laying out all of

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these documents on a table and I started

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to actually question it because it was

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so incredible that I I remember going to

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bed after after meeting him the first

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night and thinking is this guy like for

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real I mean this this is something that

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is so incredible that I'm only gonna

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really be able to do something like this

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if I can get everybody because it was

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one of those things worth it's just one

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person saying it it just it sounds too

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outlandish the conspiratorial guy that I

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am one of the first questions I had from

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the beginning is why do you think they

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released all these documents I have a

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hard time believing it's just for the

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vanity or the the interest of this sweet

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old man professor Russell Targ versus oh

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I have all kinds of thoughts on that you

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know we think of government as a

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monolithic thing that government is

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coming up to this or the government is

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hiding this

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government intentionally is very

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dysfunctional so this is actually a

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great point intentionally dysfunctional

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I love it and I thought he was going

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someplace with it but if you listen to

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the interview he really doesn't go

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anyplace with it he goes back to saying

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well you know these things kind of

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happen in one hand doesn't know where

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the other hands doing

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plants if it's intentionally

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dysfunctional then it's not really

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dysfunctional there's any intention

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behind it

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who's driving the agenda behind that

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intention the presidents and elected

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officials are always the last to know

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say the CIA director often falls in that

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category too because I would yeah yeah I

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mean possibly you know I would say the

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CIA director probably knows more than

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the president does but but Russell and

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how the two scientists that started this

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program in the 70s were we're both

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already vetted people working within

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established intelligence circles let me

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just clarify you're saying as opposed to

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as we do understand it now some programs

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that are just black yeah these were not

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black programs these were these were

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secret programs but they had oversight

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and and if you think about something

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like remote viewing how easy is it to do

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remote viewing basically you close your

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eyes you imagine where your target is is

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hiding and then you write down what

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comes to your mind the first unexpected

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images that you get and that's it you

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know so so the it's it doesn't take

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billions of dollars it doesn't take

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fighter jets but the government is

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uniquely placed to be able to find out

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if you're right or wrong

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so you can infiltrate the regular

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intelligence agencies by giving them

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information and and not telling them

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where it comes from well this is such a

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cool point and it's something I never

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thought of before as Lance points out

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this is kind of the ultimate tool on so

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many levels first it has this huge yield

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you have to put almost no money into it

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and you get this huge intelligence

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payoff on the other end but the other

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thing as Lance points out it has this

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power the kind of power that only

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secrets can bring because you have

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information that only

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convinced that these guys are playing

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this disinformation misinformation and

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spread of information at a 3d chess

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level that we don't totally even get

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absolute what you're saying and extended

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to that who knows you know what's going

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on so then what do you think those guys

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are doing with the UFO disclosure thing

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well that's that's right where I was

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going to go you know the the my take on

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both them with remote viewing and them

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with the UFO thing and I am talking

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specifically about people that I

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interviewed that were still sort of

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involved in these kinds of projects even

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by their own admission is that these are

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people who are in the end on the inside

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but they're not really on the inside let

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me just throw this out cuz I all right

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died to get some of this opinion on this

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who's truly the thought about it and

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studied it as you are it seems to me

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that there's this straight-up political

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thing that's going on that too few

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people talk about there's a left-right

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Republican Democrat if you will kind of

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flavor to some of this so this the UFO

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disclosure thing is clearly coming from

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the left and I don't say that to

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prejudice it in any way it just clearly

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clearly is it's Podesta and Clinton were

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originally the ones to pick wanted to

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bring it out and they weren't elected so

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Tom DeLonge who was hooked into that

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went ahead and brought it out anyway and

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Peter Levin de who was part of that

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whole thing which was lifetime spook I'm

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just saying in broad strokes that seems

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to be one of the the overlays on this

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and I'd love to hear anything you think

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about that well number one Trump will be

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the last person they ever tell he'll be

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the last one on the boat I think but oh

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but he has his own he has his own people

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who are telling him I mean well they're

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very starting space for us and we don't

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know why and all this kind of stuff yes

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but but you've got to look at I think I

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don't know that it's left versus right

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as much as it is sort of logic versus

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superstition so I said there's some

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tension in this interview and at this

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point you can feel it whenever I stumble

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into these political discussions I'm

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always blindsided because to me it's

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clear that politics is

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nonsense it's such a low-level game and

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that the real players are at a much

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higher level than this and that'll do it

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for interruptions in commentary before

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the interview you know I've never done

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this before if you listen to this show

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so I don't know if people are gonna like

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this or not like this but before you

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tell me let me give you a chance to

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listen to my complete interview with

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Lance munguia welcome to skeptic Oh

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where we explore controversial science

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and spirituality with leading

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researchers thinkers and their critics

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I'm your host Alex Karras and at this

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point we're all familiar with remote

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viewing and the history of psychic

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spying that began in the 1970s with the

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Stargate program at Stanford Research

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Institute but today's guest

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award-winning filmmaker Lance munguia

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has a film out third eye spies that is

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really a deeper look into this history

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and its implications not just for

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proving that were more than biological

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robots in a meaningless universe but

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also a deep dive into the politics of

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secrecy the ongoing tension between

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liberty and security and ultimately

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about our place within this thing we

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call consciousness Lance this is going

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to be a super exciting interview for me

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thank you so much for joining me on

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skeptic oh hey thank you so much for

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having me this is like a lot of fun and

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I really appreciate your your having me

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on well great you know we were just

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chatting a minute ago the more I get to

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know your project third I spies which is

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a great movie and we should mention by

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the way you know if people haven't seen

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a movie it's now even available on

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Amazon Prime or you can just go watch it

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for free which is wow that's a great

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deal why did you decide to put it out on

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Amazon Prime just to kind of spread it

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out to some more people could get to it

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or well well yes

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you know Amazon

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Prime you know is is if you have Amazon

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Prime membership the film is free there

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and you know it's also available on

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iTunes it's available on Vimeo you know

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pretty much anywhere that you can get

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00:11:22,810 --> 00:11:19,530
digital downloads but we really wouldn't

275
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:22,820
wanted to make the film available for

276
00:11:28,490 --> 00:11:25,770
free if possible you know like through

277
00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:28,500
something like Amazon Prime or Netflix

278
00:11:33,380 --> 00:11:30,630
and and we ultimately decided on Amazon

279
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:33,390
Prime because you know it just seems

280
00:11:36,590 --> 00:11:34,650
like that really was where the audience

281
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:36,600
was at and and actually we've been doing

282
00:11:40,610 --> 00:11:39,120
you know well there seems like a lot of

283
00:11:43,490 --> 00:11:40,620
people are finding the film there and

284
00:11:44,690 --> 00:11:43,500
are able to see it and for me that was

285
00:11:46,850 --> 00:11:44,700
the most important thing more than

286
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:46,860
anything else was just simply being able

287
00:11:51,380 --> 00:11:49,770
to you know have the film out there and

288
00:11:53,270 --> 00:11:51,390
have it be seen by people you know

289
00:11:56,390 --> 00:11:53,280
because it's a subject a lot of people

290
00:11:58,670 --> 00:11:56,400
don't know about and you know it's it

291
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:58,680
represents Russell Targ life work and so

292
00:12:02,990 --> 00:12:00,000
it was very important for me just that

293
00:12:05,540 --> 00:12:03,000
it be out there in such a way that that

294
00:12:06,980 --> 00:12:05,550
it's easily findable and Amazon Prime

295
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:06,990
really gave us that opportunity and

296
00:12:12,190 --> 00:12:08,850
we're really grateful for that for

297
00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:12,200
anyone who isn't familiar with the movie

298
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:15,510
third-eye spies let me go ahead and play

299
00:12:24,590 --> 00:12:21,120
a trailer from the movie if you had an

300
00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:24,600
ability to be able to remotely perceive

301
00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:28,230
stuff any place in the world that could

302
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:31,750
be an extraordinary intelligence source

303
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:34,240
we found that many individuals are able

304
00:12:40,139 --> 00:12:37,120
to accurately describe what's going on

305
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:40,149
in distant locations are you saying the

306
00:12:44,759 --> 00:12:42,490
work you've been doing is classified it

307
00:12:50,129 --> 00:12:44,769
was a research facility that was all

308
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:50,139
that we were gonna tell the Russians

309
00:12:58,060 --> 00:12:53,530
have been spending millions of dollar

310
00:13:00,320 --> 00:12:58,070
investigating so-called ESP psychic

311
00:13:03,019 --> 00:13:00,330
spies

312
00:13:04,430 --> 00:13:03,029
almost a psychic arms race here is there

313
00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:04,440
any real application to this

314
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:06,240
I think remote viewing has been

315
00:13:09,530 --> 00:13:08,370
demonstrated over the 20 years of work

316
00:13:12,650 --> 00:13:09,540
that it's been sponsored by the

317
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:12,660
government producing crucial and vital

318
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,010
intelligence to the NSA CIA DEA and the

319
00:13:22,269 --> 00:13:19,440
Secret Service I began to feel

320
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:22,279
frightened the KGB did a mess

321
00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:26,160
what's really going on here thanks also

322
00:13:30,620 --> 00:13:28,920
disaster nation at the CIA was lying

323
00:13:34,639 --> 00:13:30,630
they wanted to kill the further storm

324
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:34,649
brewing it seems really I say no more

325
00:13:42,769 --> 00:13:36,290
secrets

326
00:13:45,889 --> 00:13:42,779
let this information out well great

327
00:13:50,750 --> 00:13:45,899
great it was actually really a very cool

328
00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:50,760
trip it is a cool trailer it's a cool

329
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:52,529
movie people who haven't seen the movie

330
00:14:01,010 --> 00:13:56,970
this is cinematography this is theater

331
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:01,020
quality documentary and I think a lot of

332
00:14:06,050 --> 00:14:02,610
people have praised you for it and and

333
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:06,060
you deserve that that praise so anything

334
00:14:10,519 --> 00:14:07,440
else you want to tell us about the

335
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:10,529
moviemaking process or third eye spies

336
00:14:16,579 --> 00:14:13,040
that isn't covered there in the trailer

337
00:14:18,199 --> 00:14:16,589
well the movie itself took you know

338
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:18,209
quite a long time to make mainly because

339
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:20,880
I was doing it you know as a labor of

340
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:23,010
love I mean I was working on this kind

341
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:24,800
of sporadically as I was also trying to

342
00:14:31,730 --> 00:14:28,890
you know do other things and you know it

343
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:31,740
it really represents the first time that

344
00:14:35,660 --> 00:14:33,360
a lot of the people that are in the film

345
00:14:37,310 --> 00:14:35,670
have actually been on camera one of the

346
00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:37,320
reasons that the film took so long was

347
00:14:42,530 --> 00:14:39,480
because I had to personally reach out to

348
00:14:44,420 --> 00:14:42,540
a lot of people who were very kind of

349
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,430
skittish you know to be on camera and

350
00:14:50,060 --> 00:14:46,800
that process actually took a number of

351
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:50,070
months for me to reach out to people

352
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:53,490
like kit green like Ken kress who was

353
00:14:58,670 --> 00:14:56,399
the CIA program manager for the remote

354
00:15:00,050 --> 00:14:58,680
viewing program the first one in this

355
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:00,060
let me jump in there because we're gonna

356
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:01,890
throw around a lot of names that some

357
00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:03,810
people will not be familiar with or

358
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:05,910
really kind of vaguely familiar with but

359
00:15:11,390 --> 00:15:08,370
the storyline that the movie follows is

360
00:15:12,140 --> 00:15:11,400
that Russell Targ who is of course one

361
00:15:14,780 --> 00:15:12,150
of the

362
00:15:18,110 --> 00:15:14,790
original principle investigators in this

363
00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:18,120
Stargate remote viewing program along

364
00:15:24,260 --> 00:15:22,380
with Hal put off is kind of on this you

365
00:15:27,170 --> 00:15:24,270
know final mission you know he's an

366
00:15:29,420 --> 00:15:27,180
older guy and he's going to reconnect

367
00:15:32,420 --> 00:15:29,430
through you you're with him every step

368
00:15:35,780 --> 00:15:32,430
of the way with all these people that

369
00:15:38,540 --> 00:15:35,790
have been a part of this amazing program

370
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:38,550
and he gets these documents released and

371
00:15:44,450 --> 00:15:40,770
then the threat of the story is okay

372
00:15:47,630 --> 00:15:44,460
guys we can now tell the story that we

373
00:15:49,610 --> 00:15:47,640
wanted to tell for so long and let's go

374
00:15:52,070 --> 00:15:49,620
do it and you go was sit down with these

375
00:15:54,740 --> 00:15:52,080
people all over the world and they fill

376
00:15:56,510 --> 00:15:54,750
in the blanks of this story that we kind

377
00:15:59,450 --> 00:15:56,520
of have known about the story of psychic

378
00:16:04,310 --> 00:15:59,460
spying but it just gets a lot deeper

379
00:16:06,860 --> 00:16:04,320
than that yeah I actually knew something

380
00:16:09,230 --> 00:16:06,870
about this whole program even since I

381
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:09,240
was a child like I remember before this

382
00:16:14,090 --> 00:16:12,210
was even Declassified reading an episode

383
00:16:17,570 --> 00:16:14,100
of the my grandmother's Reader's Digest

384
00:16:19,250 --> 00:16:17,580
and I was talking about this like on you

385
00:16:21,079 --> 00:16:19,260
know top-secret Army remote viewing

386
00:16:25,010 --> 00:16:21,089
program there'd been leaks about I think

387
00:16:26,750 --> 00:16:25,020
this was in the 80s and and and I kept

388
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:26,760
this like dog-eared copy of Reader's

389
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:29,610
Digest for decades like you know into

390
00:16:32,269 --> 00:16:31,050
college I had this because I always

391
00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:32,279
thought you know wow this would make a

392
00:16:37,250 --> 00:16:35,910
really interesting film someday and you

393
00:16:38,810 --> 00:16:37,260
know but I didn't know a whole lot about

394
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:38,820
it but I had also researched some of

395
00:16:42,260 --> 00:16:40,320
them helped put offs work and some of

396
00:16:46,250 --> 00:16:42,270
Russell's daughter's work sort of

397
00:16:47,510 --> 00:16:46,260
through healing and and through you know

398
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:47,520
sort of the way consciousness kind of

399
00:16:52,670 --> 00:16:50,010
works so I was familiar with them when I

400
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:52,680
got a call from a mutual friend of

401
00:16:57,079 --> 00:16:55,290
Russell targ's to say that Russell Targ

402
00:16:59,810 --> 00:16:57,089
was interested in in speaking with me

403
00:17:01,310 --> 00:16:59,820
because he had seen another film that I

404
00:17:02,810 --> 00:17:01,320
had done he saw a film called six string

405
00:17:05,179 --> 00:17:02,820
samurai which you can find also on

406
00:17:08,419 --> 00:17:05,189
Amazon Prime and on you know the

407
00:17:09,620 --> 00:17:08,429
Internet and and he just thought it was

408
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:09,630
a really visually interesting film and

409
00:17:14,059 --> 00:17:12,329
he had a script that he wanted to turn

410
00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:14,069
into a movie which was a narrative film

411
00:17:18,740 --> 00:17:16,319
which had nothing to do with with remote

412
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:18,750
viewing it was about ESP but it was done

413
00:17:23,090 --> 00:17:21,089
in a clever narrative way and I read his

414
00:17:24,649 --> 00:17:23,100
script and and and then we spoke on the

415
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:24,659
phone about it and

416
00:17:27,339 --> 00:17:25,919
I said look I said you know the real

417
00:17:29,269 --> 00:17:27,349
story here I think is this

418
00:17:30,109 --> 00:17:29,279
remote-viewing stuff that you did for

419
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:30,119
the government I mean this is a

420
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:31,679
fantastic story can we even talk about

421
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:34,080
it and he said you know he said my

422
00:17:37,940 --> 00:17:36,210
friend Ingo died last year you know he

423
00:17:39,499 --> 00:17:37,950
was one of my subjects and and I'm

424
00:17:40,999 --> 00:17:39,509
afraid that all of these people are

425
00:17:43,339 --> 00:17:41,009
gonna pass away and we're not gonna get

426
00:17:44,989 --> 00:17:43,349
ever get their stories on cameras like

427
00:17:47,180 --> 00:17:44,999
yeah I would love to do that and so he

428
00:17:50,029 --> 00:17:47,190
literally flew out to LA and we spent a

429
00:17:51,979 --> 00:17:50,039
long weekend together um just talking

430
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:51,989
about the possibilities and frankly he

431
00:17:56,839 --> 00:17:54,090
literally showed up at my door with a

432
00:17:59,570 --> 00:17:56,849
big box full of documents that were

433
00:18:01,129 --> 00:17:59,580
marked you know classified you know and

434
00:18:04,399 --> 00:18:01,139
then and then that had been you know

435
00:18:05,810 --> 00:18:04,409
released you know and and he starts

436
00:18:09,139 --> 00:18:05,820
laying out all of these documents on a

437
00:18:11,539 --> 00:18:09,149
table and I literally even though I knew

438
00:18:14,389 --> 00:18:11,549
something about this I did not at all

439
00:18:16,369 --> 00:18:14,399
know the extent to what had happened

440
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:16,379
with this program that had gone back

441
00:18:21,379 --> 00:18:19,320
over 20 years you know and what they had

442
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:21,389
done and I started to actually question

443
00:18:26,450 --> 00:18:24,720
it because it was so incredible that I I

444
00:18:27,820 --> 00:18:26,460
remember going to bed after after

445
00:18:30,739 --> 00:18:27,830
meeting him the first night and thinking

446
00:18:32,629 --> 00:18:30,749
is this guy like for real I mean this

447
00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:32,639
this is something that is so incredible

448
00:18:36,889 --> 00:18:34,799
that I'm only going to really be able to

449
00:18:40,339 --> 00:18:36,899
do something like this if I can get

450
00:18:42,889 --> 00:18:40,349
everybody that is still alive that I can

451
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:42,899
find on you know enough credible

452
00:18:46,940 --> 00:18:45,690
witnesses you know to really discuss

453
00:18:48,889 --> 00:18:46,950
this because it was one of those things

454
00:18:50,599 --> 00:18:48,899
worth it's just one person saying it it

455
00:18:52,190 --> 00:18:50,609
just it sounds too outlandish you need

456
00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:52,200
to hear it from a bunch of different

457
00:18:55,940 --> 00:18:53,609
people and so that was really in my

458
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:55,950
condition going into the film and and we

459
00:18:58,700 --> 00:18:57,330
actually talked also at the beginning

460
00:19:01,580 --> 00:18:58,710
and something I don't think I've talked

461
00:19:04,580 --> 00:19:01,590
about before about the possibility that

462
00:19:06,769 --> 00:19:04,590
we may be still stumbling into ongoing

463
00:19:08,869 --> 00:19:06,779
classified work and you know we didn't

464
00:19:10,879 --> 00:19:08,879
know like what CIA and what some of

465
00:19:12,979 --> 00:19:10,889
these other agencies were we're still

466
00:19:14,839 --> 00:19:12,989
doing or what they might not want us to

467
00:19:18,109 --> 00:19:14,849
talk about so there was actually like a

468
00:19:19,820 --> 00:19:18,119
real conversation about like what do we

469
00:19:21,469 --> 00:19:19,830
really want to do this and and

470
00:19:23,469 --> 00:19:21,479
ultimately we decided that enough of the

471
00:19:26,089 --> 00:19:23,479
work had been already Declassified and

472
00:19:27,349 --> 00:19:26,099
and that we were going to be talking

473
00:19:29,330 --> 00:19:27,359
about the history and we wouldn't be

474
00:19:31,159 --> 00:19:29,340
going into any kind of speculation

475
00:19:33,049 --> 00:19:31,169
because I think where this sort of falls

476
00:19:34,969 --> 00:19:33,059
apart is when you go into speculation

477
00:19:36,589 --> 00:19:34,979
and you start talking about what well I

478
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:36,599
know but I can't tell you what my

479
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:38,110
sources are or or

480
00:19:41,910 --> 00:19:40,000
whatever and then and then it becomes a

481
00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:41,920
sort of second hand and and we wanted

482
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:43,990
this to actually be a historical

483
00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:46,240
document not a speculative document you

484
00:19:51,539 --> 00:19:48,910
know because everything in it is is very

485
00:19:54,539 --> 00:19:51,549
well documented you know there's so many

486
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:54,549
story threads in the movie and in turn

487
00:19:58,980 --> 00:19:56,770
there's so many story threads in the

488
00:20:01,919 --> 00:19:58,990
part that you just lay it on us right

489
00:20:04,590 --> 00:20:01,929
there because like one little bit that

490
00:20:06,810 --> 00:20:04,600
you mentioned about your tattered copy

491
00:20:10,530 --> 00:20:06,820
of Reader's Digest is one of the things

492
00:20:13,890 --> 00:20:10,540
your movie reminded me is that this was

493
00:20:16,830 --> 00:20:13,900
outed like 20 years ago so you have film

494
00:20:18,570 --> 00:20:16,840
clips of Ted Koppel's who for folks who

495
00:20:21,060 --> 00:20:18,580
are a little bit younger and don't

496
00:20:24,180 --> 00:20:21,070
remember but he was it you know in terms

497
00:20:27,180 --> 00:20:24,190
of serious nighttime news you know he

498
00:20:29,789 --> 00:20:27,190
was the guy and he's out saying hey

499
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:29,799
there's a psychic spying thing going on

500
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:31,330
we're in a race with the Russians

501
00:20:36,150 --> 00:20:33,520
they're doing it we're doing basically

502
00:20:39,930 --> 00:20:36,160
lays the whole thing out but part of the

503
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:39,940
storyline is that that changes and then

504
00:20:43,919 --> 00:20:41,770
we move away from men we move into this

505
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:43,929
kind of skeptical denying did it really

506
00:20:48,750 --> 00:20:46,240
happen kind of thing we don't really

507
00:20:50,730 --> 00:20:48,760
ever get to understanding what the

508
00:20:53,310 --> 00:20:50,740
purpose of that why the narrative

509
00:20:56,610 --> 00:20:53,320
changed from kind of this openness which

510
00:20:59,610 --> 00:20:56,620
there was about it to this denial of it

511
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:59,620
yeah so we can kind of go down that and

512
00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:01,120
then at the same time I want to throw

513
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:02,950
this I'll throw this on the table too

514
00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:05,250
because you you touched on the ongoing

515
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:08,350
nature of these programs and you have

516
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:11,530
just a little bit of the tease at the

517
00:21:15,690 --> 00:21:14,320
very end with I think it was kid green

518
00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:15,700
but it might have won one of the other

519
00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:19,510
you know super duper insiders mm-hmm in

520
00:21:24,810 --> 00:21:22,150
an elevator saying oh yeah these

521
00:21:27,780 --> 00:21:24,820
programs are still ongoing I know it

522
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:27,790
from my most trusted reliable source

523
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:30,370
which of course all of us who've really

524
00:21:38,220 --> 00:21:34,210
studied this have said duh of course if

525
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:38,230
you can gather any information you want

526
00:21:43,230 --> 00:21:40,720
the most secretive information in the

527
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:43,240
world from your enemies of course you're

528
00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:44,650
going to continue to do it you're not

529
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:47,700
going to stop doing it just because some

530
00:21:53,499 --> 00:21:51,570
senator has some religious objections or

531
00:21:56,629 --> 00:21:53,509
you know you know that's that's actually

532
00:21:58,519 --> 00:21:56,639
when I first again started this looking

533
00:22:00,889 --> 00:21:58,529
at this from circle makers respected

534
00:22:03,229 --> 00:22:00,899
from a storytelling perspective I would

535
00:22:04,489 --> 00:22:03,239
ask people and especially Russell being

536
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:04,499
you know a producer on the project

537
00:22:09,229 --> 00:22:07,200
Russell Targ who was the founding when

538
00:22:11,210 --> 00:22:09,239
Co founding scientists who started all

539
00:22:13,849 --> 00:22:11,220
of this who's the villain

540
00:22:15,950 --> 00:22:13,859
you know like who's the the bad guy in

541
00:22:17,389 --> 00:22:15,960
this I mean you know what is and he

542
00:22:21,139 --> 00:22:17,399
didn't even think about it he just said

543
00:22:24,109 --> 00:22:21,149
it's it's it's the the the religious

544
00:22:25,999 --> 00:22:24,119
dogma you know the the the scientific

545
00:22:29,090 --> 00:22:26,009
dogma to a certain extent but mainly

546
00:22:31,639 --> 00:22:29,100
religious dogma and and I didn't believe

547
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:31,649
him you know frankly I I thought you

548
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:33,090
know that's this way too outlandish you

549
00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:35,039
have a useful tool you're not gonna tell

550
00:22:38,330 --> 00:22:36,600
me that some guy that thinks it's you

551
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:38,340
know the devil's work or something is

552
00:22:43,639 --> 00:22:40,049
going to keep you from doing it and and

553
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:43,649
what I learned you know through years of

554
00:22:49,369 --> 00:22:45,330
going out and interviewing you know

555
00:22:51,019 --> 00:22:49,379
these people that did this was yeah I

556
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:51,029
mean I mean that that pretty much was

557
00:22:55,999 --> 00:22:52,799
one of the biggest obstacles that they

558
00:22:58,180 --> 00:22:56,009
had was just not only a scientific

559
00:23:00,259 --> 00:22:58,190
skepticism but a completely illogical

560
00:23:02,029 --> 00:23:00,269
skepticism that wouldn't even look at

561
00:23:05,269 --> 00:23:02,039
the data that wouldn't even entertain

562
00:23:09,349 --> 00:23:05,279
the idea that this could even be because

563
00:23:12,399 --> 00:23:09,359
this was something that was you know

564
00:23:13,549 --> 00:23:12,409
supernatural and and in spooky and and

565
00:23:16,849 --> 00:23:13,559
scary

566
00:23:20,299 --> 00:23:16,859
did that well and exactly what you said

567
00:23:23,389 --> 00:23:20,309
it's not just spooky and scary it is the

568
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:23,399
devil's work you know and you have a

569
00:23:29,629 --> 00:23:27,210
clip in the film with Joe menescal has

570
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:29,639
been on this show and I think it's

571
00:23:34,609 --> 00:23:32,129
terrific in a number of ways although I

572
00:23:38,180 --> 00:23:34,619
also had an interview with Ed May and

573
00:23:41,180 --> 00:23:38,190
who ran the program after Russell Targ

574
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:41,190
and how put off left and he's an

575
00:23:45,349 --> 00:23:42,960
interesting character because he kind of

576
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:45,359
says he's friends with Joe but then on

577
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:47,129
the other end contradicts what Joe's

578
00:23:50,810 --> 00:23:49,289
saying because Joe sees these deeper

579
00:23:53,810 --> 00:23:50,820
spiritual connections with like

580
00:23:56,779 --> 00:23:53,820
near-death experience and consciousness

581
00:23:59,629 --> 00:23:56,789
in general but I digress because one of

582
00:24:02,899 --> 00:23:59,639
the points that again stuck out to me in

583
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:02,909
third eye spies is this point where Joe

584
00:24:05,780 --> 00:24:03,810
really become

585
00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:05,790
kind of passionate talking to Roscoe's

586
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:09,950
Russell we survived five presidential

587
00:24:15,550 --> 00:24:12,930
administrations and you get the sense of

588
00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:15,560
I we had to put up with all this

589
00:24:21,590 --> 00:24:19,260
craziness political craziness that was

590
00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:21,600
sometimes driven by purely this

591
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:25,320
finanical Christian kind of craziness

592
00:24:31,030 --> 00:24:28,650
about you know how we should understand

593
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:31,040
this stuff from this very narrow

594
00:24:35,690 --> 00:24:34,530
religious perspective that I think

595
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:35,700
you're talking about right here and

596
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:38,250
there's just no way to soften that or to

597
00:24:44,750 --> 00:24:42,690
make that go away it is and it it really

598
00:24:47,300 --> 00:24:44,760
struck me that this was a reality in

599
00:24:49,550 --> 00:24:47,310
these guys lives it wasn't just kind of

600
00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:49,560
a conceptual kind of thing to toss

601
00:24:53,780 --> 00:24:51,960
around yeah you know it's it's the old

602
00:24:56,060 --> 00:24:53,790
adage the more things change the more

603
00:24:58,190 --> 00:24:56,070
they stay the same

604
00:25:01,970 --> 00:24:58,200
you know I believe that they had the

605
00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:01,980
same issues with the a tip program you

606
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:04,200
know studying UFOs like you know from

607
00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:05,370
accounts that have come out from that it

608
00:25:09,290 --> 00:25:07,740
sounds exactly like what they went

609
00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:09,300
through with remote viewing program in

610
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:10,830
that when you're dealing with something

611
00:25:17,090 --> 00:25:14,510
that does not fall within the normal

612
00:25:19,820 --> 00:25:17,100
scientific and sort of religious

613
00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:19,830
paradigm that a lot of people just

614
00:25:23,540 --> 00:25:22,140
cannot get their head wrapped around it

615
00:25:26,780 --> 00:25:23,550
they don't want to rock their world view

616
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:26,790
as as you know Jessica it's in our film

617
00:25:32,210 --> 00:25:29,850
says and and so they will do anything

618
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:32,220
they can to stay inside this box that

619
00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:34,170
they have created for themselves and and

620
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:35,550
if you think about it you can go all the

621
00:25:40,910 --> 00:25:38,130
way back to Galileo and and you know

622
00:25:42,830 --> 00:25:40,920
Galileo creating a telescope and going

623
00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:42,840
out into the streets and pointing this

624
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:44,220
thing up at the sky and trying to get

625
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:46,320
somebody to look through it and and by

626
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:47,970
his account no one would look through it

627
00:25:53,450 --> 00:25:50,850
remote viewing and and psychic ability

628
00:25:55,850 --> 00:25:53,460
in general is that you can overlay

629
00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:55,860
pretty much whatever belief system you

630
00:26:00,740 --> 00:25:58,530
want on top of it and and no one can

631
00:26:02,690 --> 00:26:00,750
prove you wrong I mean I interviewed at

632
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:02,700
may you know for the film and

633
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:04,410
unfortunately he didn't you know make it

634
00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:07,650
into the film but um you know he said

635
00:26:12,050 --> 00:26:09,390
you know you we can study this for

636
00:26:14,420 --> 00:26:12,060
another 50 years and never know how this

637
00:26:16,910 --> 00:26:14,430
actually works they just know that it

638
00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:16,920
works well it may says the happy

639
00:26:20,210 --> 00:26:18,420
cuz that's how it's good and then that's

640
00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:20,220
how it's gonna come out I wasn't

641
00:26:24,770 --> 00:26:22,230
impressed at all with that made talking

642
00:26:27,340 --> 00:26:24,780
about a dogmatic materialist he's there

643
00:26:30,290 --> 00:26:27,350
in my interview he's slamming

644
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:30,300
parapsychology he says in grade he's

645
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:33,600
slamming a Joe McMahon achill it's it's

646
00:26:40,130 --> 00:26:36,690
just the same old kind of turf war kind

647
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:40,140
of [\h__\h] yeah it has all these

648
00:26:45,230 --> 00:26:41,970
limitations that we've come to expect

649
00:26:48,050 --> 00:26:45,240
with science so that's those are the two

650
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:48,060
storylines that emerge from the movie

651
00:26:53,230 --> 00:26:50,370
one is kind of this crazy religious

652
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:53,240
dogma that creates this crazy political

653
00:26:58,220 --> 00:26:55,410
process that where things have to be

654
00:26:59,720 --> 00:26:58,230
compartmentalized and and couched in a

655
00:27:02,780 --> 00:26:59,730
certain way in order to get this

656
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:02,790
miniscule amount of funding but then the

657
00:27:06,530 --> 00:27:04,290
other on the other hand there's this

658
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:06,540
other force out there that is this

659
00:27:12,650 --> 00:27:10,320
sceptical scientific Ray Hyman who shows

660
00:27:14,330 --> 00:27:12,660
up in the film because late on later on

661
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:14,340
in the game he looks at the whole

662
00:27:20,540 --> 00:27:17,370
program and says yeah none of this shows

663
00:27:23,630 --> 00:27:20,550
any any scientific value or any

664
00:27:26,420 --> 00:27:23,640
operational value for the CIA and that's

665
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:26,430
why the program was killed so you have

666
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:28,770
to contrast that with the crazy

667
00:27:32,540 --> 00:27:30,330
Christians on one hand and then you have

668
00:27:34,340 --> 00:27:32,550
the crazy atheists on the other and

669
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:34,350
that's right them what's their political

670
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:37,050
agenda that's right and is that it's the

671
00:27:42,290 --> 00:27:39,570
boat is it's a it's it's dogma on either

672
00:27:43,850 --> 00:27:42,300
side because it's it's a you know it's

673
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:43,860
about someone who thinks they have it

674
00:27:47,930 --> 00:27:46,290
all figured out and and unfortunately or

675
00:27:50,450 --> 00:27:47,940
fortunately science should be about what

676
00:27:51,860 --> 00:27:50,460
you don't understand and and every

677
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:51,870
advance in science throughout history

678
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:55,170
has always been in the cracks that we

679
00:27:59,600 --> 00:27:57,810
have missed you knows but but I want to

680
00:28:02,030 --> 00:27:59,610
mention about Ray Hyman even ray Hyman

681
00:28:04,490 --> 00:28:02,040
who is the noted skeptic actually said

682
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:04,500
there was something to the statistical

683
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:06,810
data of remote viewing he just didn't

684
00:28:11,180 --> 00:28:09,330
say that it was useful to intelligence

685
00:28:12,260 --> 00:28:11,190
gathering that really gets back to the

686
00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:12,270
question that you were asking earlier

687
00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:16,380
which is what has happened since the 80s

688
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:19,110
when this was on Ted Koppel and in the

689
00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:21,090
70s when this was really pursued to now

690
00:28:27,620 --> 00:28:23,160
and I and I do think that a certain

691
00:28:29,930 --> 00:28:27,630
amount of that is is guided you know I

692
00:28:30,890 --> 00:28:29,940
do think that this is a useful tool and

693
00:28:35,930 --> 00:28:30,900
I think

694
00:28:38,420 --> 00:28:35,940
that if I was someone using this in a

695
00:28:41,060 --> 00:28:38,430
large way I certainly wouldn't want it

696
00:28:44,780 --> 00:28:41,070
to be known widely how useful and how

697
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:44,790
good it is because that that would mean

698
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:47,610
that just about anybody can use it you

699
00:28:51,410 --> 00:28:49,890
know and and maybe as an intelligence

700
00:28:52,180 --> 00:28:51,420
tool I might think that's dangerous Oh

701
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:52,190
No

702
00:28:58,100 --> 00:28:55,530
Wow I mean he just touched on a bunch of

703
00:29:01,700 --> 00:28:58,110
topics that could become entire

704
00:29:03,170 --> 00:29:01,710
interviews in of themselves one of the

705
00:29:07,070 --> 00:29:03,180
things I thought was interesting about

706
00:29:09,290 --> 00:29:07,080
the movie on this level that I think I

707
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:09,300
hope people will appreciate once they

708
00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:11,760
get into it is that this is a really a

709
00:29:19,250 --> 00:29:15,900
unique look at secret programs and how

710
00:29:22,430 --> 00:29:19,260
they're run because one of the questions

711
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:22,440
I had for you Lance is the

712
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:26,640
conspiratorial guy that I am one of the

713
00:29:31,670 --> 00:29:28,290
first questions I had from the beginning

714
00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:31,680
is why do you think they released all

715
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:34,320
these documents I have a hard time

716
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:37,410
believing it's just for the vanity or

717
00:29:44,180 --> 00:29:40,890
the interest of this sweet old man

718
00:29:46,970 --> 00:29:44,190
professor Russell Targ IRS's I'd like to

719
00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:46,980
I'd like to do this final tour and oh

720
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:49,380
the BC Isis oh great well here are

721
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:51,570
60,000 documents that we never released

722
00:29:55,970 --> 00:29:54,000
before let's let the public know what

723
00:29:58,370 --> 00:29:55,980
really happened during the Stargate

724
00:30:02,410 --> 00:29:58,380
program what are your thoughts oh I have

725
00:30:05,540 --> 00:30:02,420
all kinds of thoughts on that you know

726
00:30:08,540 --> 00:30:05,550
we think of government as a monolithic

727
00:30:11,770 --> 00:30:08,550
thing that government is coming up to

728
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:11,780
this or the government is hiding this

729
00:30:17,150 --> 00:30:15,120
government intentionally is very

730
00:30:18,830 --> 00:30:17,160
dysfunctional you know and and

731
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:18,840
intentionally is very compartmentalized

732
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:20,490
especially in the intelligence community

733
00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:22,890
you know if you don't want somebody to

734
00:30:27,050 --> 00:30:25,020
know about something you you just kind

735
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:27,060
of sprinkle it around in different ways

736
00:30:30,350 --> 00:30:28,320
and you and you do what's called

737
00:30:32,930 --> 00:30:30,360
stovepiping where where there's there's

738
00:30:34,910 --> 00:30:32,940
a very vertical amount of people that

739
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:34,920
know about this and and they don't talk

740
00:30:39,140 --> 00:30:37,290
to other groups of other people in the

741
00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:39,150
intelligence community it's not like you

742
00:30:42,050 --> 00:30:40,200
know Department of Homeland Security

743
00:30:44,390 --> 00:30:42,060
where they're trying to track everything

744
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:44,400
that's going on it's exactly the

745
00:30:50,990 --> 00:30:48,090
you know and and so even within the

746
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:51,000
Pentagon or even within CIA or NSA or

747
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:54,330
anything else you know they're not

748
00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:56,130
talking to each other and and they're

749
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,290
not filing something in some centralized

750
00:31:04,010 --> 00:31:00,080
database where everybody can look at it

751
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:04,020
and in fact over time a lot of things

752
00:31:07,820 --> 00:31:06,330
are probably really lost because the

753
00:31:11,660 --> 00:31:07,830
people that know the information get old

754
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:11,670
you know they they you know you lose

755
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:15,690
stuff and I really went into this

756
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:17,130
thinking that there was this kind of

757
00:31:21,620 --> 00:31:19,290
monolithic force that has sort of

758
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:21,630
protected this and and and worked on

759
00:31:26,090 --> 00:31:24,720
this and and by the end I realized no

760
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:26,100
the left hand doesn't know what the

761
00:31:30,980 --> 00:31:28,650
right hand is doing and and in fact um

762
00:31:33,380 --> 00:31:30,990
when we interviewed Ken kress who was

763
00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:33,390
the program manager that runs a remote

764
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:35,820
viewing program for a CIA for the first

765
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:38,610
few years he had never done an interview

766
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:40,290
before he didn't know what he could talk

767
00:31:43,940 --> 00:31:42,090
about what he couldn't and every

768
00:31:45,340 --> 00:31:43,950
question that we asked him and

769
00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:45,350
everything that he wanted to talk about

770
00:31:51,169 --> 00:31:48,750
he had to send off to CIA to get

771
00:31:53,270 --> 00:31:51,179
approved and and when he told me that

772
00:31:54,860 --> 00:31:53,280
after like months of like back-and-forth

773
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:54,870
with him getting him you know to do the

774
00:31:58,880 --> 00:31:57,120
interview my heart sank because I went

775
00:32:00,080 --> 00:31:58,890
don't know they're gonna like Nix

776
00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:00,090
everything I'm not gonna be able to talk

777
00:32:06,350 --> 00:32:01,710
about anything you know this is gonna be

778
00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:06,360
the end of it and and he got back this

779
00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:08,070
response from them and he sent me you

780
00:32:11,900 --> 00:32:09,720
know all of the the questions and the

781
00:32:13,790 --> 00:32:11,910
answers you know before the interview

782
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:13,800
and I'm looking at this I'm going oh my

783
00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:17,130
god this is incredible I mean he's

784
00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:18,780
talking about like the CIA running

785
00:32:24,140 --> 00:32:21,270
remote viewers internally against Libya

786
00:32:25,790 --> 00:32:24,150
and like other countries and you know

787
00:32:27,890 --> 00:32:25,800
stuff that I didn't even know stuff that

788
00:32:30,380 --> 00:32:27,900
Russell didn't even know you know and

789
00:32:32,180 --> 00:32:30,390
and they released all of this data you

790
00:32:36,770 --> 00:32:32,190
know and so you gotta ask why is like is

791
00:32:39,410 --> 00:32:36,780
this a plot like are they trying oh no

792
00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:39,420
it's not a plot is it's it's it's

793
00:32:45,290 --> 00:32:43,140
because the guy at the desk at CIA knows

794
00:32:46,910 --> 00:32:45,300
nothing about this and thinks this is

795
00:32:47,930 --> 00:32:46,920
like a joke I mean he's looking at this

796
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:47,940
and going oh I don't know anything about

797
00:32:50,990 --> 00:32:49,890
this sure you want to talk about it go

798
00:32:52,940 --> 00:32:51,000
ahead like you know like all that

799
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:52,950
stuff's old news you know it's it's it's

800
00:32:57,289 --> 00:32:56,490
to a certain extent there's a there's a

801
00:33:00,200 --> 00:32:57,299
loss

802
00:33:02,509 --> 00:33:00,210
of continuity of how the information

803
00:33:06,139 --> 00:33:02,519
comes out now that's on the one hand now

804
00:33:08,779 --> 00:33:06,149
on the other hand all of Russell's work

805
00:33:11,090 --> 00:33:08,789
originally was marked automatic do not

806
00:33:12,169 --> 00:33:11,100
downgrade you know classified like

807
00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:12,179
normally when things were Declassified

808
00:33:16,580 --> 00:33:14,700
they automatically become public after

809
00:33:20,299 --> 00:33:16,590
25 years you can request them if you

810
00:33:21,619 --> 00:33:20,309
know about them but in this case Russell

811
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:21,629
said when he tried to get some of his

812
00:33:26,180 --> 00:33:24,210
work Declassified he he got back to

813
00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:26,190
stamp automatic do not downgrade you

814
00:33:31,340 --> 00:33:28,529
know you cannot declassify this so the

815
00:33:33,499 --> 00:33:31,350
only way to get it Declassified was he

816
00:33:36,139 --> 00:33:33,509
had to go to politicians he had to go to

817
00:33:38,570 --> 00:33:36,149
people within the Defense Department and

818
00:33:40,159 --> 00:33:38,580
and basically start this like legal

819
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:40,169
battle with his son where it went back

820
00:33:45,139 --> 00:33:42,480
and forth just to get basically the Pat

821
00:33:48,139 --> 00:33:45,149
price stuff and the Ingo Swann early

822
00:33:50,570 --> 00:33:48,149
stuff you know Declassified you know

823
00:33:52,009 --> 00:33:50,580
looking at Soviet weapon sites and you

824
00:33:55,070 --> 00:33:52,019
know stuff that was twenty thirty years

825
00:33:58,099 --> 00:33:55,080
old by that time and see but here's the

826
00:34:00,560 --> 00:33:58,109
part that kind of contradicts that and

827
00:34:04,159 --> 00:34:00,570
it's right out of your movie and it's

828
00:34:08,329 --> 00:34:04,169
the the UFO link yeah you know fast

829
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:08,339
forward now to where we're at now and lo

830
00:34:16,780 --> 00:34:11,609
and behold who's up on stage Tom DeLonge

831
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:16,790
it was right behind him how there's how

832
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:19,530
lifetime player another thing your movie

833
00:34:26,450 --> 00:34:23,040
reveals is Hal was a naval intelligence

834
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:26,460
agency from the beginning and when Hal

835
00:34:29,930 --> 00:34:28,530
put off in Russell Targ have a little

836
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:29,940
bit of a split I don't want to

837
00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:32,879
exaggerate that it does seem like there

838
00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:35,510
are these two different guys there's the

839
00:34:41,149 --> 00:34:39,089
researcher Russell Targ who's the mad

840
00:34:43,940 --> 00:34:41,159
scientist and there's this other guy

841
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:43,950
who's also a researcher but at the end

842
00:34:49,399 --> 00:34:47,010
of the day is a lifetime player in the

843
00:34:52,669 --> 00:34:49,409
intelligence agency and knows how to

844
00:34:56,539 --> 00:34:52,679
work inside those circles so if this was

845
00:35:01,730 --> 00:34:56,549
part of the agenda that is to roll out

846
00:35:05,660 --> 00:35:01,740
the the UFO fake SIOP disclosure that

847
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:05,670
became in 2017 not that it wasn't fake

848
00:35:09,530 --> 00:35:07,200
not that those things really didn't

849
00:35:09,980 --> 00:35:09,540
happen but it seemed to be it seems to

850
00:35:12,140 --> 00:35:09,990
me

851
00:35:14,780 --> 00:35:12,150
to a lot of people to be a very

852
00:35:16,940 --> 00:35:14,790
controlled kind of disclosure of an

853
00:35:18,590 --> 00:35:16,950
event that happened 10 years ago and

854
00:35:21,260 --> 00:35:18,600
they've been sitting on for all this

855
00:35:23,410 --> 00:35:21,270
time and yet they rolled it out like hey

856
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:23,420
this is happening now

857
00:35:29,810 --> 00:35:27,210
are you sure that maybe what they

858
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:29,820
released you guys wasn't part of a

859
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:32,610
larger project of let's kind of push

860
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:35,520
this stuff out there see where it goes I

861
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:38,160
love your comment earlier that you just

862
00:35:42,590 --> 00:35:40,320
sprinkle it around a little bit and kind

863
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:42,600
of see where it goes and then you deal

864
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:46,050
with the pieces after after it's out

865
00:35:51,170 --> 00:35:49,770
there well number one any time you deal

866
00:35:54,980 --> 00:35:51,180
with the intelligence community or

867
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:54,990
people who are lifelong you know people

868
00:35:59,600 --> 00:35:57,119
with security clearances it's always

869
00:36:02,210 --> 00:35:59,610
peeling away the layers of an onion you

870
00:36:03,590 --> 00:36:02,220
you never are gonna know what they know

871
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:03,600
because they're not gonna tell you you

872
00:36:07,250 --> 00:36:05,730
know like the even even when Ken cress

873
00:36:08,750 --> 00:36:07,260
got all those questions released he said

874
00:36:10,370 --> 00:36:08,760
there was a ton of other stuff that he

875
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:10,380
wanted to talk about he wasn't allowed

876
00:36:13,220 --> 00:36:12,090
to talk about and and I've called him

877
00:36:15,980 --> 00:36:13,230
since and said hey can we talk about

878
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:15,990
that and he hasn't you know ever

879
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:18,960
received a final response back on it so

880
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:22,710
it's it's it's not that I I want to

881
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:24,000
clarify my earlier statement because

882
00:36:27,470 --> 00:36:25,440
it's not that it's all just in disarray

883
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:27,480
and nobody knows there's people that

884
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:31,710
know there's just you know it depends on

885
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:33,570
what you're really talking about because

886
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:34,770
there's there's other even more

887
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:36,480
classified things that we still don't

888
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:38,160
know I mean how at the time I

889
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:39,930
interviewed him said that probably 70%

890
00:36:43,730 --> 00:36:42,090
of what they had done in the remote

891
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:43,740
viewing program is still to this day

892
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:46,010
classified you couldn't talk about it so

893
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:48,720
there's there's definitely a lot of that

894
00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:50,490
and and now I'm getting the question of

895
00:36:55,010 --> 00:36:52,220
is this some sort of intentional

896
00:36:57,380 --> 00:36:55,020
disclosure in terms of remote viewing

897
00:36:59,390 --> 00:36:57,390
program it was the opposite because what

898
00:37:01,730 --> 00:36:59,400
happened was that that Russell basically

899
00:37:05,210 --> 00:37:01,740
got specific things that he had done

900
00:37:06,740 --> 00:37:05,220
officially Declassified the army guys

901
00:37:08,470 --> 00:37:06,750
that had been getting out of the army

902
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:08,480
and going and talking about this stuff

903
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:12,450
were reviled by the CIA you know is is

904
00:37:17,599 --> 00:37:14,480
what I'm what I will later learn the CIA

905
00:37:19,820 --> 00:37:17,609
hated the fact that the army had a

906
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:19,830
remote viewing program now while they

907
00:37:22,890 --> 00:37:21,930
were saying that they hated it they were

908
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:22,900
still using it

909
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:24,400
I mean they were the biggest customer of

910
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:26,530
the army guys but but the head of the

911
00:37:31,410 --> 00:37:28,510
CIA would publicly go before Committees

912
00:37:32,850 --> 00:37:31,420
of Congress and and berate the fact that

913
00:37:35,220 --> 00:37:32,860
they even had a remotely feeding program

914
00:37:37,170 --> 00:37:35,230
they wanted it gone and and now in my

915
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:37,180
own opinion and it's just an opinion as

916
00:37:42,660 --> 00:37:40,240
a layperson I believe the reason they

917
00:37:44,850 --> 00:37:42,670
wanted it gone was probably because the

918
00:37:47,580 --> 00:37:44,860
Army is too leaky you know like the guys

919
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:47,590
getting out of the army are not a career

920
00:37:52,410 --> 00:37:50,560
like lifelong intelligence agents you

921
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:52,420
know like rock-solid will always be

922
00:37:55,530 --> 00:37:53,890
there look at how the army and retire

923
00:37:58,650 --> 00:37:55,540
and they want to make movies they want

924
00:38:00,420 --> 00:37:58,660
to you know go write a book you know

925
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:00,430
they want to teach remote viewing you

926
00:38:05,310 --> 00:38:02,650
know there's a whole other sort of mode

927
00:38:06,750 --> 00:38:05,320
of somebody who's an Army grunt who just

928
00:38:09,660 --> 00:38:06,760
learned how to do remote viewing versus

929
00:38:13,740 --> 00:38:09,670
a lifelong intelligence agent for CIA

930
00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:13,750
and that's one possible explanation but

931
00:38:17,250 --> 00:38:15,760
let me throw out another explanation and

932
00:38:20,460 --> 00:38:17,260
again this is something you touched on

933
00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:20,470
earlier is one of the things that your

934
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:23,880
movie reveals is again the longtime

935
00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:27,850
problems and challenges that a a secret

936
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:29,710
program like this faces and we're

937
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:32,410
talking about Joe mechanicals standing

938
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:35,220
up and saying we survived five

939
00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:37,570
administrations and that gets to this

940
00:38:42,690 --> 00:38:39,910
continuity of government kind of thing

941
00:38:46,290 --> 00:38:42,700
right it's necessary right you can't

942
00:38:49,020 --> 00:38:46,300
have a country's intelligence agencies

943
00:38:51,330 --> 00:38:49,030
spinning on a dime just because a new

944
00:38:54,210 --> 00:38:51,340
president is elected that would be

945
00:38:56,430 --> 00:38:54,220
disastrous to so these old-timers have

946
00:39:01,080 --> 00:38:56,440
been around for a long time they see the

947
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:01,090
value in kind of keeping it close to the

948
00:39:06,510 --> 00:39:04,330
vest and not maybe sharing the stuff

949
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:06,520
with people the way the Constitution

950
00:39:13,650 --> 00:39:10,690
says it should so your film kind of

951
00:39:16,740 --> 00:39:13,660
shows how that plays out how these CI

952
00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:16,750
even the CIA directors are saying rather

953
00:39:22,410 --> 00:39:20,110
kind of absurd things in light of what's

954
00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:22,420
really going on in terms of a lot larger

955
00:39:27,780 --> 00:39:23,950
picture that you're telling

956
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:27,790
so is it isn't that just another point

957
00:39:34,620 --> 00:39:32,410
of confusion well number one you know

958
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:34,630
the presidents and elected officials are

959
00:39:38,109 --> 00:39:35,210
always the

960
00:39:41,740 --> 00:39:38,119
- no and and in Russell target help it

961
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:41,750
off you had say the CIA director often

962
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:43,609
falls in that category too because I

963
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:46,730
would yeah yeah I mean possibly you know

964
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:48,320
I would say the CIA director probably

965
00:39:54,370 --> 00:39:51,290
knows more than the President does but

966
00:39:56,260 --> 00:39:54,380
but Russell and how the two scientists

967
00:40:00,490 --> 00:39:56,270
that started this program in the 70s

968
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:00,500
were were both already vetted people

969
00:40:05,050 --> 00:40:03,050
working within established intelligence

970
00:40:07,420 --> 00:40:05,060
circles they were both the pioneers of

971
00:40:10,180 --> 00:40:07,430
lasers and things like that so they were

972
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:10,190
they were both really very respected

973
00:40:14,109 --> 00:40:11,359
people within the intelligence community

974
00:40:15,460 --> 00:40:14,119
already and and they were respected

975
00:40:19,450 --> 00:40:15,470
within the intelligence community that

976
00:40:21,490 --> 00:40:19,460
had an official oversight you know like

977
00:40:24,010 --> 00:40:21,500
they were reporting to you know Congress

978
00:40:25,570 --> 00:40:24,020
committees and you know that people high

979
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:25,580
up in government so there was an

980
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:27,410
official channel already to work through

981
00:40:31,390 --> 00:40:29,450
that was overseen by elected officials

982
00:40:34,380 --> 00:40:31,400
so when they took their remote viewing

983
00:40:36,970 --> 00:40:34,390
experiments to people in government

984
00:40:39,790 --> 00:40:36,980
there was an official channel you know

985
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:39,800
to go through and let me just clarify

986
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:42,410
you're saying as opposed to as we do

987
00:40:47,020 --> 00:40:44,480
understand it now some programs that are

988
00:40:49,390 --> 00:40:47,030
just black young black from we're not

989
00:40:50,980 --> 00:40:49,400
tuning these were not black programs

990
00:40:53,859 --> 00:40:50,990
these were these were secret programs

991
00:40:55,089 --> 00:40:53,869
but they had oversight and and if you

992
00:40:56,740 --> 00:40:55,099
think about something like remote

993
00:40:58,210 --> 00:40:56,750
viewing how easy is it to do remote

994
00:41:01,480 --> 00:40:58,220
viewing basically you close your eyes

995
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:01,490
you imagine where your target is is

996
00:41:05,380 --> 00:41:03,650
hiding and then you write down what

997
00:41:08,290 --> 00:41:05,390
comes to your mind the first unexpected

998
00:41:10,650 --> 00:41:08,300
images that you get and that's it you

999
00:41:12,910 --> 00:41:10,660
know so so the it's it doesn't take

1000
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:12,920
billions of dollars it doesn't take

1001
00:41:18,310 --> 00:41:15,170
fighter jets but the government is

1002
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:18,320
uniquely placed to be able to find out

1003
00:41:21,370 --> 00:41:19,970
if you're right or wrong you know like I

1004
00:41:23,020 --> 00:41:21,380
can talk about what's going on in Russia

1005
00:41:26,130 --> 00:41:23,030
but I have no idea if I'm right or wrong

1006
00:41:29,890 --> 00:41:26,140
they do you know so so you can

1007
00:41:32,050 --> 00:41:29,900
infiltrate the regular intelligence

1008
00:41:34,030 --> 00:41:32,060
agencies by giving them information and

1009
00:41:35,650 --> 00:41:34,040
and not telling them where it comes from

1010
00:41:39,790 --> 00:41:35,660
say that again let's talk about that

1011
00:41:41,380 --> 00:41:39,800
well okay so so let's say me right now

1012
00:41:44,980 --> 00:41:41,390
in this room I have a team of five

1013
00:41:46,270 --> 00:41:44,990
remote viewers and there's one contact

1014
00:41:48,580 --> 00:41:46,280
from government that has reached out to

1015
00:41:51,130 --> 00:41:48,590
us and I and I am I look

1016
00:41:53,260 --> 00:41:51,140
a bunch of locations you look at I send

1017
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:53,270
him that data no idea if it's right or

1018
00:41:58,090 --> 00:41:54,800
wrong I may never know if it's right or

1019
00:41:59,470 --> 00:41:58,100
wrong but he knows and he may be the

1020
00:42:02,140 --> 00:41:59,480
only one that knows where that

1021
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:02,150
information he where he's getting it but

1022
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:03,890
then he's feeding it into the mainstream

1023
00:42:09,550 --> 00:42:07,520
apparatus of intelligence and and so

1024
00:42:11,790 --> 00:42:09,560
even the intelligence agencies themself

1025
00:42:14,050 --> 00:42:11,800
may not know who this guy's contact is

1026
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:14,060
but they're gonna still use the

1027
00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:15,530
information if it turns out to be useful

1028
00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:17,630
and if it turns out to be useful once

1029
00:42:21,420 --> 00:42:19,250
then the chances are it's gonna be

1030
00:42:24,070 --> 00:42:21,430
useful again and again and again and

1031
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:24,080
nobody has to know how that information

1032
00:42:29,500 --> 00:42:28,010
is being gathered you know it's not

1033
00:42:32,830 --> 00:42:29,510
there's no oversight there doesn't have

1034
00:42:36,670 --> 00:42:32,840
to be it moreover if I'm into the game

1035
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:36,680
of misinformation disinformation even

1036
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:39,290
within my agency which is often the case

1037
00:42:43,630 --> 00:42:41,210
you know and we'll talk a little story

1038
00:42:45,570 --> 00:42:43,640
about kid green where he admits that

1039
00:42:49,540 --> 00:42:45,580
that you know but there were constantly

1040
00:42:51,820 --> 00:42:49,550
tests done against him to see where his

1041
00:42:53,860 --> 00:42:51,830
information would go so these guys are

1042
00:42:56,770 --> 00:42:53,870
playing this disinformation

1043
00:42:59,740 --> 00:42:56,780
misinformation and spread of information

1044
00:43:02,050 --> 00:42:59,750
at a 3d chess level that we don't

1045
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:02,060
totally even get absolutely what you're

1046
00:43:08,410 --> 00:43:04,880
saying and extended to that who knows

1047
00:43:11,020 --> 00:43:08,420
you know what's going on absolutely and

1048
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:11,030
I and I am constantly confused by by

1049
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:13,850
people like you know KITT and people who

1050
00:43:17,020 --> 00:43:15,440
are lifelong intelligence agencies and

1051
00:43:18,010 --> 00:43:17,030
you you have to always look at it

1052
00:43:19,540 --> 00:43:18,020
through the prism that they're not

1053
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:19,550
telling you everything and that there

1054
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:21,530
may be an agenda and you know and and

1055
00:43:26,020 --> 00:43:23,330
you just you have to but but you can

1056
00:43:27,970 --> 00:43:26,030
still extrapolate out from that because

1057
00:43:29,350 --> 00:43:27,980
there's enough public information out

1058
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:29,360
there and enough people that aren't

1059
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:30,640
directly in the intelligence community

1060
00:43:35,250 --> 00:43:33,290
so so that you can kind of get at like

1061
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:35,260
what's real and what's not

1062
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:38,330
well no can you that's really the

1063
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:41,090
question because it KITT Green is a

1064
00:43:48,580 --> 00:43:44,510
classic example of that lifetime player

1065
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:48,590
your movie is fantastic in the way that

1066
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:51,770
it captures KITT green not just the

1067
00:43:57,550 --> 00:43:54,650
information that he gives in the film

1068
00:44:01,390 --> 00:43:57,560
which is terrific but as you're alluding

1069
00:44:01,980 --> 00:44:01,400
to you get a sense for this kind of wily

1070
00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:01,990
fine

1071
00:44:07,500 --> 00:44:04,750
who kind of knows so much more than it

1072
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:07,510
ever reveal and in a way is kind of

1073
00:44:11,579 --> 00:44:08,890
playing with you

1074
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:11,589
like if you poke at just the right

1075
00:44:17,310 --> 00:44:15,130
questions I might tell you more but if

1076
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:17,320
you can't bring the level of discourse

1077
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:20,710
up to that level then I'm gonna divert

1078
00:44:26,460 --> 00:44:23,200
you over this way do you want to talk

1079
00:44:28,290 --> 00:44:26,470
about that any further there's there's a

1080
00:44:30,420 --> 00:44:28,300
distinct difference between somebody

1081
00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:30,430
like Russell Targ and somebody like how

1082
00:44:34,589 --> 00:44:33,310
put off work it green or or some of

1083
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:34,599
these other people in that in that

1084
00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:37,839
Russell always was first and foremost a

1085
00:44:44,130 --> 00:44:41,710
a researcher who was looking to publish

1086
00:44:46,890 --> 00:44:44,140
you know he wanted to publish papers he

1087
00:44:48,510 --> 00:44:46,900
wanted to get the word out about like

1088
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:48,520
what he was finding because what he was

1089
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:51,010
finding was world-changing you know the

1090
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:54,130
the fact that that there is you know

1091
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:57,520
proof of something like ESP you know

1092
00:45:02,040 --> 00:44:59,680
like there is something that exists that

1093
00:45:04,820 --> 00:45:02,050
we don't understand that allows a person

1094
00:45:06,750 --> 00:45:04,830
to see outside of space and time and and

1095
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:06,760
gather information they otherwise

1096
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:09,970
shouldn't have and so he became a lot

1097
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:11,440
more frustrated over the years because

1098
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:15,280
as this got better and better use the

1099
00:45:20,849 --> 00:45:16,930
amount of information going out got less

1100
00:45:23,970 --> 00:45:20,859
and less and less right and now how and

1101
00:45:25,230 --> 00:45:23,980
and kit both were much more company men

1102
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:25,240
you know like like yeah like you said

1103
00:45:30,780 --> 00:45:27,490
how had a background with NSA and with

1104
00:45:33,300 --> 00:45:30,790
and with intelligence kit claims that he

1105
00:45:36,510 --> 00:45:33,310
still consults with CIA and other

1106
00:45:40,290 --> 00:45:36,520
intelligence agencies so they're having

1107
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:40,300
an agenda that is not necessarily the

1108
00:45:46,380 --> 00:45:43,119
best agenda to get good science out

1109
00:45:48,060 --> 00:45:46,390
because it may not be their objective to

1110
00:45:50,010 --> 00:45:48,070
get best science out I don't know I'm

1111
00:45:51,839 --> 00:45:50,020
not in there click it really isn't even

1112
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:51,849
a matter of science at the end of the

1113
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,770
day and that's where I think you are I

1114
00:45:58,020 --> 00:45:55,599
want to explore that with you personally

1115
00:46:01,700 --> 00:45:58,030
in terms of spirituality and your

1116
00:46:04,170 --> 00:46:01,710
understanding of spirituality because

1117
00:46:07,050 --> 00:46:04,180
ultimately that's what we're talking

1118
00:46:10,910 --> 00:46:07,060
about here when we talk about Russell

1119
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:10,920
Targ and we understand that he wants to

1120
00:46:15,359 --> 00:46:14,050
make the world a better world in some

1121
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:15,369
way that

1122
00:46:20,730 --> 00:46:17,680
supposed to connect with consciousness

1123
00:46:23,339 --> 00:46:20,740
and being psychic which is okay I can go

1124
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:23,349
there but there is this natural tension

1125
00:46:29,099 --> 00:46:26,650
with this other group that says yeah but

1126
00:46:33,089 --> 00:46:29,109
you really don't want the Chinese

1127
00:46:36,839 --> 00:46:33,099
sending an EMI weapon like they did off

1128
00:46:40,319 --> 00:46:36,849
the coast of San Diego and wiping out

1129
00:46:42,569 --> 00:46:40,329
your entire grid either and that's a

1130
00:46:44,999 --> 00:46:42,579
reality and the Huns marching over the

1131
00:46:47,579 --> 00:46:45,009
hills have always been a reality and at

1132
00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:47,589
the end of the day this is this is kit

1133
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:50,710
green this is how put off if you will

1134
00:46:56,339 --> 00:46:53,890
saying you care about your security more

1135
00:46:58,470 --> 00:46:56,349
than you care about anything else if you

1136
00:47:00,210 --> 00:46:58,480
care about your security more than you

1137
00:47:02,609 --> 00:47:00,220
think you care about this idea of

1138
00:47:05,069 --> 00:47:02,619
spirituality and consciousness and

1139
00:47:07,019 --> 00:47:05,079
loving everybody so let me tell you

1140
00:47:09,539 --> 00:47:07,029
right now I'm gonna go ahead and protect

1141
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:09,549
you because at the end of the day that's

1142
00:47:16,140 --> 00:47:12,970
what you want so let's continue to

1143
00:47:19,319 --> 00:47:16,150
explore that because there is a reality

1144
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:19,329
to that it does transcend quote-unquote

1145
00:47:25,710 --> 00:47:22,720
science if you will yeah I mean I I want

1146
00:47:27,660 --> 00:47:25,720
to start by saying that though I believe

1147
00:47:30,029 --> 00:47:27,670
that these guys were lifelong

1148
00:47:33,329 --> 00:47:30,039
intelligence agents are not able to say

1149
00:47:36,299 --> 00:47:33,339
everything and may have an agenda I I've

1150
00:47:38,910 --> 00:47:36,309
come to the conclusion that they ought

1151
00:47:42,229 --> 00:47:38,920
that that they do care about the science

1152
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:42,239
and they do care about this not being a

1153
00:47:46,890 --> 00:47:45,130
dying mode of study you know meaning

1154
00:47:48,660 --> 00:47:46,900
that this work continues on that they

1155
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:48,670
have done I'm talking specifically about

1156
00:47:52,650 --> 00:47:50,410
kit I'm talking specifically about how

1157
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:52,660
put off you know people who may or may

1158
00:47:56,430 --> 00:47:54,130
not still be doing intelligence work

1159
00:47:59,729 --> 00:47:56,440
they still care about the work that has

1160
00:48:02,819 --> 00:47:59,739
been done my take on kit rain for

1161
00:48:04,349 --> 00:48:02,829
instance is is yeah he chairs about the

1162
00:48:07,739 --> 00:48:04,359
science he cares about what has been

1163
00:48:09,329 --> 00:48:07,749
done he wants it to be talked about it

1164
00:48:12,569 --> 00:48:09,339
he doesn't want it to be talked about in

1165
00:48:14,339 --> 00:48:12,579
a big way you know you know he doesn't

1166
00:48:17,069 --> 00:48:14,349
mind if the research continues but let's

1167
00:48:20,069 --> 00:48:17,079
not make it so big that that all of a

1168
00:48:21,930 --> 00:48:20,079
sudden this becomes mainstream so then

1169
00:48:24,420 --> 00:48:21,940
what do you think those guys are doing

1170
00:48:26,130 --> 00:48:24,430
with the UFO disclosure thing well

1171
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:26,140
that's that's right where I was going to

1172
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:28,530
go you know the the

1173
00:48:34,010 --> 00:48:30,960
my take on both them with remote viewing

1174
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:34,020
and them with the UFO thing and I'm

1175
00:48:37,850 --> 00:48:35,610
talking specifically about people that I

1176
00:48:39,590 --> 00:48:37,860
interviewed that were still sort of

1177
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:39,600
involved in these kinds of projects even

1178
00:48:44,830 --> 00:48:42,960
by their own admission is that these are

1179
00:48:48,050 --> 00:48:44,840
people who are in the in on the inside

1180
00:48:49,730 --> 00:48:48,060
but they're not really on the inside let

1181
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:49,740
me just throw this out cuz I all right

1182
00:48:53,540 --> 00:48:51,690
died to get some of his opinion on this

1183
00:48:56,330 --> 00:48:53,550
who's truly the thought about it and

1184
00:48:58,430 --> 00:48:56,340
studied it as you are it seems to me

1185
00:49:00,590 --> 00:48:58,440
that there's this straight-up political

1186
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:00,600
thing that's going on that too few

1187
00:49:06,140 --> 00:49:03,050
people talk about there's a left-right

1188
00:49:08,990 --> 00:49:06,150
Republican Democrat if you will kind of

1189
00:49:11,090 --> 00:49:09,000
flavor to some of this and that you know

1190
00:49:13,100 --> 00:49:11,100
so this the UFO disclosure thing is

1191
00:49:15,470 --> 00:49:13,110
clearly coming from the left and I don't

1192
00:49:19,220 --> 00:49:15,480
say that to prejudice it in any way it

1193
00:49:21,650 --> 00:49:19,230
just clearly clearly is it's Podesta and

1194
00:49:23,540 --> 00:49:21,660
Clinton were originally the ones that

1195
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:23,550
wanted to bring it out and they weren't

1196
00:49:27,950 --> 00:49:26,250
elected so Tom DeLonge who was hooked

1197
00:49:30,590 --> 00:49:27,960
into that went ahead and brought it out

1198
00:49:31,970 --> 00:49:30,600
anyway and Peter Levin de who was part

1199
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:31,980
of that whole thing which is lifetime

1200
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:34,170
spook I don't know why anyone sees him

1201
00:49:39,620 --> 00:49:36,930
other than just like who is this new

1202
00:49:41,570 --> 00:49:39,630
Peter Levin de okay uh you know along

1203
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:41,580
with Tom's along it you know his story

1204
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:43,650
as I called up Tom DeLonge and it's like

1205
00:49:48,740 --> 00:49:47,130
tom is it really you oh my gosh well we

1206
00:49:50,990 --> 00:49:48,750
have to figure this out the only place

1207
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,000
we can go is the CIA you know that's

1208
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:53,520
right it's just a kind of a manufactured

1209
00:49:58,070 --> 00:49:55,920
story but it seems to be coming from one

1210
00:49:59,900 --> 00:49:58,080
side of the political spectrum again not

1211
00:50:02,480 --> 00:49:59,910
to prejudice it and it's interesting

1212
00:50:05,060 --> 00:50:02,490
kind of the crypto speak that the other

1213
00:50:07,130 --> 00:50:05,070
side brings out through Trump who is the

1214
00:50:07,790 --> 00:50:07,140
current mouthpiece like him or not for

1215
00:50:10,310 --> 00:50:07,800
that side

1216
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:10,320
who's saying yeah I'm very skeptical of

1217
00:50:14,660 --> 00:50:12,330
that whole thing so they're kind of

1218
00:50:17,780 --> 00:50:14,670
taking that angle and in that there's

1219
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:17,790
this we've all known for a long time and

1220
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:19,890
as your movie kind of again points out

1221
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:22,890
is there is this kind of straight-up

1222
00:50:28,700 --> 00:50:26,400
political way to understand intelligence

1223
00:50:31,970 --> 00:50:28,710
organizations particularly the CIA in

1224
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:31,980
terms of this right left and the agenda

1225
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:34,530
would seem to be for the UFO thing this

1226
00:50:39,290 --> 00:50:37,050
kind of one-world thing we need to you

1227
00:50:40,190 --> 00:50:39,300
know it's global warming it's UFOs it's

1228
00:50:42,140 --> 00:50:40,200
one world

1229
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:42,150
your rights don't think about you being

1230
00:50:46,250 --> 00:50:44,400
this individual kind of country in

1231
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:46,260
person and then we have the other side

1232
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:48,890
saying no you should only think about

1233
00:50:53,390 --> 00:50:50,880
America first America is the greatest

1234
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:53,400
kind of thing again I'm not trying to

1235
00:50:58,099 --> 00:50:55,200
flavor that in any way I'm just saying

1236
00:51:01,490 --> 00:50:58,109
in broad strokes that seems to be one of

1237
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:01,500
the the overlays on this and I'd love to

1238
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:04,010
hear anything you think about well

1239
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:08,250
number one Trump will be the last person

1240
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:11,490
they ever tell he'll be the last one on

1241
00:51:14,539 --> 00:51:12,960
the boat I think but oh but he has his

1242
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:14,549
own he has his own people who are

1243
00:51:18,170 --> 00:51:16,170
telling him I mean they're they're

1244
00:51:20,299 --> 00:51:18,180
starting spaceforce and we don't know

1245
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:20,309
why and all this kind of stuff yes but

1246
00:51:24,829 --> 00:51:22,890
but you've got to look at I think I

1247
00:51:27,620 --> 00:51:24,839
don't know that it's left versus right

1248
00:51:29,839 --> 00:51:27,630
as much as it is sort of logic versus

1249
00:51:32,799 --> 00:51:29,849
superstition and again you're talking

1250
00:51:36,589 --> 00:51:32,809
about a sort of very mainstream level of

1251
00:51:39,770 --> 00:51:36,599
oversight which probably doesn't exist

1252
00:51:42,380 --> 00:51:39,780
because most or all of this work at this

1253
00:51:44,030 --> 00:51:42,390
point is is no longer being done within

1254
00:51:46,339 --> 00:51:44,040
the government you know like you know

1255
00:51:49,309 --> 00:51:46,349
this the Clinton tried very hard in the

1256
00:51:50,750 --> 00:51:49,319
90s with Laurance Rockefeller you know

1257
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:50,760
this is a topic that's covered in

1258
00:51:54,799 --> 00:51:52,530
another documentary that I'm producing

1259
00:51:57,319 --> 00:51:54,809
and editing right now called the

1260
00:51:59,900 --> 00:51:57,329
phenomenon with James Fox you know we

1261
00:52:02,990 --> 00:51:59,910
talk all about how in the 90s they tried

1262
00:52:06,109 --> 00:52:03,000
to get access to you know UFO records

1263
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:06,119
from the US government and you know they

1264
00:52:10,750 --> 00:52:07,680
were told that nothing was there and in

1265
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:10,760
fact in a very kind of haphazard

1266
00:52:17,390 --> 00:52:14,130
cover-up kind of a way so it's it's not

1267
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:17,400
that they're being told something and

1268
00:52:20,569 --> 00:52:18,960
it's being ignored it's that they're not

1269
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:20,579
being told anything which which then

1270
00:52:25,730 --> 00:52:22,730
brings me back to like people like T TSA

1271
00:52:27,740 --> 00:52:25,740
now I've thought a lot about like what

1272
00:52:29,329 --> 00:52:27,750
is their agenda like what is their what

1273
00:52:33,049 --> 00:52:29,339
are they trying to get at with this this

1274
00:52:34,430 --> 00:52:33,059
whole disclosure thing and you know at

1275
00:52:36,950 --> 00:52:34,440
first I thought well maybe there's some

1276
00:52:38,660 --> 00:52:36,960
you know like working disclosure going

1277
00:52:41,359 --> 00:52:38,670
on or this is something from the top and

1278
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:41,369
and now I actually do think like getting

1279
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:42,450
back to what I was just saying earlier

1280
00:52:48,799 --> 00:52:46,770
this is more about people who know

1281
00:52:50,900 --> 00:52:48,809
something who want to know more who are

1282
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:50,910
trying to push the subject that's what I

1283
00:52:52,810 --> 00:52:51,650
think you know

1284
00:52:55,750 --> 00:52:52,820
in terms of what they're doing now

1285
00:52:58,390 --> 00:52:55,760
because they've been in the know but

1286
00:53:00,430 --> 00:52:58,400
there's probably other people somewhere

1287
00:53:03,220 --> 00:53:00,440
that either were associated with

1288
00:53:05,110 --> 00:53:03,230
government or are that know a lot more

1289
00:53:06,940 --> 00:53:05,120
you know and most likely they're working

1290
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:06,950
in the private sector you know and they

1291
00:53:11,020 --> 00:53:09,650
have some classified contacts but

1292
00:53:12,820 --> 00:53:11,030
primarily they're working outside of

1293
00:53:15,250 --> 00:53:12,830
government because that's the only way

1294
00:53:17,620 --> 00:53:15,260
that you can prevent this kind of stuff

1295
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:17,630
from leaking out because eventually

1296
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:19,610
elected officials are probably going to

1297
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:21,050
leak it out like there's gonna be loose

1298
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:23,210
lips like something's gonna happen so

1299
00:53:26,350 --> 00:53:25,010
they keep this is so secretive that they

1300
00:53:28,330 --> 00:53:26,360
keep all of this off the books

1301
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:28,340
completely I think that's probably what

1302
00:53:31,990 --> 00:53:30,170
happened with the remote viewing program

1303
00:53:33,250 --> 00:53:32,000
you know you you have it just off the

1304
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:33,260
books it doesn't even exist anymore

1305
00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:35,330
within government you know there's

1306
00:53:39,730 --> 00:53:37,310
there's just so many layers to this but

1307
00:53:41,740 --> 00:53:39,740
it does get interesting the thing about

1308
00:53:44,770 --> 00:53:41,750
the UFO thing that I want to explore a

1309
00:53:47,740 --> 00:53:44,780
little bit further with you is UFO as a

1310
00:53:50,460 --> 00:53:47,750
placeholder it's a placeholder in the

1311
00:53:54,250 --> 00:53:50,470
public psyche that people can kind of

1312
00:53:57,370 --> 00:53:54,260
wrap their arms around at this point the

1313
00:53:59,860 --> 00:53:57,380
real question is non-human intelligence

1314
00:54:04,300 --> 00:53:59,870
that's what we really care about and

1315
00:54:06,670 --> 00:54:04,310
that's ET or whatever kind of spirit

1316
00:54:10,540 --> 00:54:06,680
communication is connected with that and

1317
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:10,550
what that non-human intelligence might

1318
00:54:15,100 --> 00:54:13,010
be doing with our government or might be

1319
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:15,110
doing with the population in general

1320
00:54:19,300 --> 00:54:16,850
that's where the stuff really gets

1321
00:54:20,860 --> 00:54:19,310
interesting I think and it even gets

1322
00:54:22,510 --> 00:54:20,870
interesting from an intelligence

1323
00:54:24,310 --> 00:54:22,520
standpoint you know one of the things

1324
00:54:26,860 --> 00:54:24,320
that really kind of turned my head

1325
00:54:28,990 --> 00:54:26,870
around this is a UFO researcher named

1326
00:54:30,820 --> 00:54:29,000
Craig Cameron it's probably done more

1327
00:54:33,250 --> 00:54:30,830
you know grant yeah I love Grant Cameron

1328
00:54:37,650 --> 00:54:33,260
yeah probably done more work than anyone

1329
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:37,660
on revealing the presidential

1330
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:40,640
understanding of UFOs throughout all

1331
00:54:45,940 --> 00:54:42,650
these administration's going way back to

1332
00:54:49,180 --> 00:54:45,950
Nixon you know and what he uncovered was

1333
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:49,190
the Wilbert Smith that's bull Burt Smith

1334
00:54:53,950 --> 00:54:51,710
memo which was released of the Freedom

1335
00:54:56,590 --> 00:54:53,960
of Information Act in Canada because he

1336
00:54:59,410 --> 00:54:56,600
was the highest ranking official in

1337
00:55:03,340 --> 00:54:59,420
Canada who was basically responsible for

1338
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:03,350
everything radio and out of outer space

1339
00:55:06,710 --> 00:55:04,770
related so all the you

1340
00:55:09,140 --> 00:55:06,720
those stuff wound up on his desk and

1341
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:09,150
eventually he went to his bosses and

1342
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:12,330
said hey I need to go down there and see

1343
00:55:17,630 --> 00:55:14,970
what the Yanks down there in the United

1344
00:55:19,550 --> 00:55:17,640
States know so he goes down and comes

1345
00:55:22,610 --> 00:55:19,560
back and he writes this memo that is

1346
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:22,620
later truly released under Freedom of

1347
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:24,690
Information it was just like a rarity

1348
00:55:31,580 --> 00:55:26,730
you know that isn't just leaked out

1349
00:55:34,820 --> 00:55:31,590
he says UFOs are the most secret most

1350
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:34,830
important thing in the United States

1351
00:55:39,290 --> 00:55:36,960
government I met with that of our Bush

1352
00:55:40,820 --> 00:55:39,300
we now know is like super connected the

1353
00:55:43,070 --> 00:55:40,830
right guy and he mentions all these

1354
00:55:43,790 --> 00:55:43,080
other guys were the guys that you would

1355
00:55:46,220 --> 00:55:43,800
want to know

1356
00:55:49,460 --> 00:55:46,230
he says it's hot more secret than the

1357
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:49,470
hydrogen bomb and then he reveals a tiny

1358
00:55:55,340 --> 00:55:52,290
little tidbit that ties into your story

1359
00:55:58,370 --> 00:55:55,350
of third-eye spies and remote viewing

1360
00:56:00,920 --> 00:55:58,380
and also ties into this larger story of

1361
00:56:05,030 --> 00:56:00,930
non-human intelligence he says that

1362
00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:05,040
there is a mental phenomenon associated

1363
00:56:11,390 --> 00:56:09,030
with this contact experience and from

1364
00:56:15,290 --> 00:56:11,400
there we have a greater understanding

1365
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:15,300
for MK ULTRA which we'll have a chance

1366
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:18,510
to talk about sure which is all about

1367
00:56:21,940 --> 00:56:21,090
mind control all about consciousness and

1368
00:56:26,030 --> 00:56:21,950
what that could be

1369
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:26,040
including the weaponization of that but

1370
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:29,850
I have to wonder that if this wasn't

1371
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:33,570
always one of the primary objectives of

1372
00:56:41,780 --> 00:56:37,440
all this mental / consciousness work is

1373
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:41,790
to try and understand what's going on

1374
00:56:48,890 --> 00:56:45,930
with et because contact with et was made

1375
00:56:51,050 --> 00:56:48,900
by the government a long time ago as

1376
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:51,060
revealed in the will Burt Smith met Oh

1377
00:56:58,340 --> 00:56:54,450
from the 50s and is now kind of being

1378
00:57:01,760 --> 00:56:58,350
forced out in the latest you know to the

1379
00:57:03,110 --> 00:57:01,770
stars Academy release in December 2017

1380
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:03,120
I know I've thrown a lot on the table

1381
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:05,130
there no no no it's good and I and I

1382
00:57:09,740 --> 00:57:06,690
think that that's actually something I'd

1383
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:09,750
love to talk about is the is the psychic

1384
00:57:14,750 --> 00:57:13,650
connection between ufology and and

1385
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:14,760
everything else that I've just been

1386
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:17,970
studying and and I have a lifelong

1387
00:57:20,599 --> 00:57:18,480
interest

1388
00:57:22,609 --> 00:57:20,609
apology - I love studying that stuff but

1389
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:22,619
but what was so interesting to me

1390
00:57:28,609 --> 00:57:25,730
through making fertilized pies is that

1391
00:57:31,550 --> 00:57:28,619
the the sort of the weirdness the

1392
00:57:32,870 --> 00:57:31,560
strangeness that happens whether you're

1393
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:32,880
dealing with something like remote

1394
00:57:37,819 --> 00:57:34,530
viewing or whether you're even dealing

1395
00:57:39,319 --> 00:57:37,829
with you know ufology and and seeing

1396
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:39,329
UFOs and it's something that actually

1397
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:42,000
really gets missed very often which is

1398
00:57:48,349 --> 00:57:45,930
that the phenomenon is not just seeing a

1399
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:48,359
craft it's not just seeing a being it's

1400
00:57:54,589 --> 00:57:51,570
not just whatever it's it's a there's a

1401
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:54,599
general strangeness and sort of uptick

1402
00:58:00,859 --> 00:57:57,839
in psychic ability uptick in just

1403
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:00,869
bizarre occurrences PK like all of this

1404
00:58:06,319 --> 00:58:03,930
like very strange phenomenon that comes

1405
00:58:08,900 --> 00:58:06,329
along with that territory and and that

1406
00:58:10,010 --> 00:58:08,910
gets overlooked a lot by researchers

1407
00:58:12,290 --> 00:58:10,020
because it's too weird

1408
00:58:15,770 --> 00:58:12,300
you know like there's a in the movie

1409
00:58:18,770 --> 00:58:15,780
that I'm doing with James Fox you know

1410
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:18,780
we have a photo of a guy from Australia

1411
00:58:23,870 --> 00:58:22,050
that has it's the first it's a perfect

1412
00:58:26,390 --> 00:58:23,880
image of a UFO that he shot with a

1413
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:26,400
Polaroid camera you know 50 years ago

1414
00:58:32,329 --> 00:58:28,290
you know and it's part of the case

1415
00:58:36,410 --> 00:58:32,339
that's in the film and what's not in

1416
00:58:38,180 --> 00:58:36,420
that film is that this guy says I don't

1417
00:58:40,250 --> 00:58:38,190
want anything to do with this phenomenon

1418
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:40,260
and it's not because of the prejudice or

1419
00:58:44,390 --> 00:58:41,760
because people came after me or anything

1420
00:58:46,790 --> 00:58:44,400
like that it's because after I took this

1421
00:58:48,829 --> 00:58:46,800
photo all I did was take a photo all of

1422
00:58:50,270 --> 00:58:48,839
this weird stuff started happening you

1423
00:58:52,430 --> 00:58:50,280
know there was all of this PK stuff

1424
00:58:54,829 --> 00:58:52,440
flying across the room there was he said

1425
00:58:56,359 --> 00:58:54,839
he said that in the in the middle of the

1426
00:58:58,520 --> 00:58:56,369
night he got a bang on his door and he

1427
00:59:01,490 --> 00:58:58,530
opens the door and there's a little

1428
00:59:03,530 --> 00:59:01,500
person like a like a dwarf dressed in

1429
00:59:05,780 --> 00:59:03,540
Edwardian outfit and he's and he's

1430
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:05,790
berating them and berating the guy in

1431
00:59:08,930 --> 00:59:07,410
some weird accent he turns around and

1432
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:08,940
takes a few steps and then disappears

1433
00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:11,130
right in front of his eyes you know it's

1434
00:59:17,089 --> 00:59:14,000
like completely non-scientific weird

1435
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:17,099
crazy stuff you know and and you hear

1436
00:59:20,599 --> 00:59:18,810
this kind of stuff a lot from people who

1437
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:20,609
experience these kinds of things and

1438
00:59:25,339 --> 00:59:22,890
it's never talked about because it's so

1439
00:59:28,540 --> 00:59:25,349
weird and so crazy that it's just not

1440
00:59:31,259 --> 00:59:28,550
dealt with but what it suggests is that

1441
00:59:33,929 --> 00:59:31,269
in general we're dealing

1442
00:59:36,359 --> 00:59:33,939
with almost like cracks in the fabric of

1443
00:59:38,819 --> 00:59:36,369
reality you know and and if we're gonna

1444
00:59:41,399 --> 00:59:38,829
accept that then we have to accept our

1445
00:59:43,469 --> 00:59:41,409
own role in reality you know and and the

1446
00:59:44,969 --> 00:59:43,479
fact that that we're probably a lot more

1447
00:59:47,479 --> 00:59:44,979
than what we give ourselves credit for

1448
00:59:50,279 --> 00:59:47,489
or a lot less in this physical

1449
00:59:52,679 --> 00:59:50,289
manifestation and a lot more in our

1450
00:59:55,039 --> 00:59:52,689
entire spiritual being which may be

1451
00:59:57,659 --> 00:59:55,049
partially here it may be partially

1452
00:59:59,159 --> 00:59:57,669
residing in some other realm that we

1453
01:00:01,019 --> 00:59:59,169
don't understand well that's that's

1454
01:00:03,679 --> 01:00:01,029
almost a given that's almost a given

1455
01:00:07,679 --> 01:00:03,689
because it's the only way that you can

1456
01:00:10,169 --> 01:00:07,689
see what's happening on you know the

1457
01:00:11,669 --> 01:00:10,179
rings of Jupiter you know like what like

1458
01:00:13,589 --> 01:00:11,679
Ingo Swann did he predicted there was

1459
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:13,599
going to be ice rings around Jupiter

1460
01:00:16,589 --> 01:00:14,890
when everybody thought that he was crazy

1461
01:00:18,449 --> 01:00:16,599
and talking about Saturn it was a few

1462
01:00:20,489 --> 01:00:18,459
months before pioneers you know the

1463
01:00:22,289 --> 01:00:20,499
first probe got there the only way you

1464
01:00:24,149 --> 01:00:22,299
could know something like that that no

1465
01:00:27,329 --> 01:00:24,159
other human being on the planet actually

1466
01:00:29,370 --> 01:00:27,339
knows is is if somehow that information

1467
01:00:31,799 --> 01:00:29,380
is already in your head or you you have

1468
01:00:33,749 --> 01:00:31,809
access to all information you know this

1469
01:00:35,729 --> 01:00:33,759
is like what up what Edgar Cayce would

1470
01:00:39,629 --> 01:00:35,739
call the Akashic record right you know

1471
01:00:41,669 --> 01:00:39,639
so the the thing about that is that it

1472
01:00:43,799 --> 01:00:41,679
suggests that our consciousness is

1473
01:00:45,689 --> 01:00:43,809
non-local it doesn't just exist within

1474
01:00:47,639 --> 01:00:45,699
our brains you know and this isn't a

1475
01:00:49,439 --> 01:00:47,649
woowoo concept it's not a you know a

1476
01:00:51,479 --> 01:00:49,449
religious concept or spiritual concept

1477
01:00:53,309 --> 01:00:51,489
it's just what's being born out in in

1478
01:00:54,959 --> 01:00:53,319
you know experiments that have been done

1479
01:00:57,749 --> 01:00:54,969
you know is that there's no way that

1480
01:00:59,370 --> 01:00:57,759
this could have been known unless it was

1481
01:01:00,989 --> 01:00:59,380
non-local information that we are

1482
01:01:04,859 --> 01:01:00,999
picking up from some other part of

1483
01:01:07,199 --> 01:01:04,869
ourselves it's not existing in here you

1484
01:01:12,059 --> 01:01:07,209
know I had a chance to interview Kevin

1485
01:01:13,949 --> 01:01:12,069
day who was the top gun operator of the

1486
01:01:16,339 --> 01:01:13,959
naval fleet oh right

1487
01:01:20,099 --> 01:01:16,349
Tikrit sightings actually happened and

1488
01:01:22,889 --> 01:01:20,109
he tells an exact account of what you're

1489
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:22,899
talking about in terms of these LA Davis

1490
01:01:27,929 --> 01:01:25,599
effects from Jean fillet and Davis wrote

1491
01:01:30,479 --> 01:01:27,939
a paper on it you know when you say the

1492
01:01:33,449 --> 01:01:30,489
edwardian little person that shows up at

1493
01:01:38,939 --> 01:01:33,459
the door that's Kevin's story is not

1494
01:01:42,779 --> 01:01:38,949
that but it's he's tracking these UFOs

1495
01:01:44,460 --> 01:01:42,789
and he's tracking them for days which is

1496
01:01:46,559 --> 01:01:44,470
kind of an interesting part of the story

1497
01:01:48,990 --> 01:01:46,569
because why would you be tracking these

1498
01:01:51,809 --> 01:01:49,000
things for four or five days that are

1499
01:01:53,579 --> 01:01:51,819
following you flying at 28,000 feet and

1500
01:01:56,130 --> 01:01:53,589
you wouldn't report this to your

1501
01:01:58,740 --> 01:01:56,140
superiors again there's some level of

1502
01:02:01,890 --> 01:01:58,750
mind control going on here that we don't

1503
01:02:04,140 --> 01:02:01,900
totally understand but put that side of

1504
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:04,150
the story away for a minute he's

1505
01:02:09,540 --> 01:02:06,730
tracking them they finally send up

1506
01:02:12,930 --> 01:02:09,550
Faber and these other fighter pilots to

1507
01:02:16,170 --> 01:02:12,940
go check out the UFOs at the same time

1508
01:02:19,290 --> 01:02:16,180
Kevin says he walks up on the deck and

1509
01:02:23,099 --> 01:02:19,300
takes the glasses out and looks at the

1510
01:02:26,849 --> 01:02:23,109
UFOs and exactly to your point at that

1511
01:02:29,490 --> 01:02:26,859
moment something shifts in him and he

1512
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:29,500
comes home he gets off the boat in San

1513
01:02:34,980 --> 01:02:32,530
Diego and he does his stuff but he winds

1514
01:02:38,599 --> 01:02:34,990
up retiring from the Navy after 20 years

1515
01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:38,609
and going through just all these strange

1516
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:41,920
synchronicities extended consciousness

1517
01:02:45,809 --> 01:02:43,690
kind of things and he's really

1518
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:45,819
struggling too in the same way that if

1519
01:02:50,970 --> 01:02:48,730
you study near-death experiencers they

1520
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:50,980
come back and it's not just all love in

1521
01:02:55,559 --> 01:02:53,530
life it's a lot of depression struggling

1522
01:02:58,140 --> 01:02:55,569
reintegration in with this

1523
01:03:02,430 --> 01:02:58,150
what are these powers and abilities I

1524
01:03:04,589 --> 01:03:02,440
now have so it's it's interesting that

1525
01:03:07,260 --> 01:03:04,599
that happened to Kevin day as part of

1526
01:03:09,780 --> 01:03:07,270
the tic-tacs sighting but it's also

1527
01:03:13,620 --> 01:03:09,790
interesting that the guys we're talking

1528
01:03:14,910 --> 01:03:13,630
about who are the operational guys the

1529
01:03:17,809 --> 01:03:14,920
guys who are rolling out this

1530
01:03:20,670 --> 01:03:17,819
information and who are spinning it as

1531
01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:20,680
Department of Defense has to protect us

1532
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:23,710
because these UFOs could be dangerous

1533
01:03:27,500 --> 01:03:25,690
and that's clearly the narrative that's

1534
01:03:31,050 --> 01:03:27,510
come out from that round of disclosure

1535
01:03:34,170 --> 01:03:31,060
they know Kevin's story they know about

1536
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:34,180
this terror in the extended reality that

1537
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:36,490
you're talking about and they also know

1538
01:03:43,020 --> 01:03:38,650
as your film points out and concludes

1539
01:03:46,140 --> 01:03:43,030
with Edgar Mitchell who says hey doesn't

1540
01:03:49,170 --> 01:03:46,150
this really transcend these little

1541
01:03:51,690 --> 01:03:49,180
warring factions that we have on this

1542
01:03:54,599 --> 01:03:51,700
planet and doesn't it suggest that we're

1543
01:03:58,230 --> 01:03:54,609
all much more deeply connected and have

1544
01:04:01,440 --> 01:03:58,240
a much deeper purpose so there is that

1545
01:04:03,540 --> 01:04:01,450
tension that is unresolved and is left

1546
01:04:06,329 --> 01:04:03,550
unresolved at the end of third eye spies

1547
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:06,339
in terms of these guys they understand

1548
01:04:13,050 --> 01:04:10,810
that there is more yes yeah they do and

1549
01:04:14,430 --> 01:04:13,060
and and I mean I think that anybody that

1550
01:04:16,829 --> 01:04:14,440
studies this stuff there's there's

1551
01:04:18,540 --> 01:04:16,839
basically two types of people there's

1552
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:18,550
there's people who have looked at the

1553
01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:20,650
data and then there's people who have

1554
01:04:24,359 --> 01:04:22,480
not looked at the data you know because

1555
01:04:27,089 --> 01:04:24,369
if you actually looked at the hundred

1556
01:04:29,849 --> 01:04:27,099
years or more of data in terms of

1557
01:04:31,770 --> 01:04:29,859
psychic functioning you're not going to

1558
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:31,780
question whether or not it's real or not

1559
01:04:35,430 --> 01:04:33,250
you know you're gonna question what the

1560
01:04:37,109 --> 01:04:35,440
mechanism is you're gonna question you

1561
01:04:39,660 --> 01:04:37,119
know how it works but you can't question

1562
01:04:41,250 --> 01:04:39,670
whether or not it's real you know once

1563
01:04:43,500 --> 01:04:41,260
you've been exposed to it especially

1564
01:04:46,349 --> 01:04:43,510
firsthand you know there is a there

1565
01:04:48,300 --> 01:04:46,359
there and it's up to science to figure

1566
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:48,310
out what that there is you know and how

1567
01:04:54,599 --> 01:04:51,690
it works and and and and move into that

1568
01:04:56,099 --> 01:04:54,609
and I think that when you're exposed to

1569
01:05:00,660 --> 01:04:56,109
something that is outside of your

1570
01:05:03,150 --> 01:05:00,670
paradigm it it's like it creates a crack

1571
01:05:05,910 --> 01:05:03,160
in your own consciousness that allows

1572
01:05:07,410 --> 01:05:05,920
more in and that can be very crazy

1573
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:07,420
making you know it's like I don't

1574
01:05:10,700 --> 01:05:08,530
recommend somebody take up

1575
01:05:14,089 --> 01:05:10,710
remote-viewing without some sort of a

1576
01:05:16,020 --> 01:05:14,099
discipline and you know oversight and

1577
01:05:18,420 --> 01:05:16,030
you know you don't just want to do

1578
01:05:20,250 --> 01:05:18,430
something haphazardly because it that

1579
01:05:21,870 --> 01:05:20,260
you can't take away somebody's worldview

1580
01:05:23,490 --> 01:05:21,880
without giving them another one you know

1581
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:23,500
that's that's in one of gentleman

1582
01:05:27,450 --> 01:05:24,880
monocles books actually which I really

1583
01:05:28,470 --> 01:05:27,460
love that statement because you know

1584
01:05:30,589 --> 01:05:28,480
you're because you're gonna fill those

1585
01:05:33,780 --> 01:05:30,599
gaps with a bunch of misinformation and

1586
01:05:35,820 --> 01:05:33,790
wrong stuff that it's just crazy making

1587
01:05:38,940 --> 01:05:35,830
you know and in reality it's just part

1588
01:05:39,900 --> 01:05:38,950
of who we are as human beings but you

1589
01:05:42,300 --> 01:05:39,910
know you said something really

1590
01:05:44,820 --> 01:05:42,310
interesting which is that Kevin day for

1591
01:05:47,250 --> 01:05:44,830
three days did not even report the the

1592
01:05:48,599 --> 01:05:47,260
radar sign I knew he had seen it for

1593
01:05:51,180 --> 01:05:48,609
four days I didn't know he didn't report

1594
01:05:54,089 --> 01:05:51,190
it for three days but this is a very

1595
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:54,099
common occurrence and it's not I don't

1596
01:05:57,420 --> 01:05:55,210
think it's some sort of like mind

1597
01:05:59,490 --> 01:05:57,430
control from an ete I think it's simply

1598
01:06:02,070 --> 01:05:59,500
that when something is so far outside of

1599
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:02,080
your paradigm that you find ways to

1600
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:04,930
rationalize and and again and again and

1601
01:06:10,380 --> 01:06:07,450
again we have to be reminded of sort of

1602
01:06:12,690 --> 01:06:10,390
the more mysterious and and a

1603
01:06:15,509 --> 01:06:12,700
known in magical parts of life hey

1604
01:06:18,390 --> 01:06:15,519
that's all good I love all that and

1605
01:06:21,150 --> 01:06:18,400
that's right out of the positive vibe of

1606
01:06:23,940 --> 01:06:21,160
the movie and Russell Targ thing but it

1607
01:06:26,279 --> 01:06:23,950
just ain't that simple okay well guy

1608
01:06:28,259 --> 01:06:26,289
who's been on this show I really respect

1609
01:06:30,359 --> 01:06:28,269
guy named ray Hernandez who's done the

1610
01:06:33,180 --> 01:06:30,369
first comprehensive survey of contact

1611
01:06:37,019 --> 01:06:33,190
experiences and again

1612
01:06:39,329 --> 01:06:37,029
Rudy shields from Harvard collaborated

1613
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:39,339
on the work it's real research but Ray's

1614
01:06:44,069 --> 01:06:41,440
personal story and it's a story you'll

1615
01:06:46,980 --> 01:06:44,079
hear repeated over and over by people

1616
01:06:50,460 --> 01:06:46,990
have had contact experience is direct

1617
01:06:53,519 --> 01:06:50,470
mind control by ET so ray is walking

1618
01:06:57,329 --> 01:06:53,529
down the stairs why while witnessing his

1619
01:07:00,000 --> 01:06:57,339
wife walking into an orb of light that

1620
01:07:02,579 --> 01:07:00,010
later does this miraculous healing on

1621
01:07:06,420 --> 01:07:02,589
their dog which is a long story I won't

1622
01:07:10,349 --> 01:07:06,430
get into here but Ray remembers walking

1623
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:10,359
down the stairs and then having not a

1624
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:13,210
voice but an understanding in his head

1625
01:07:18,599 --> 01:07:16,930
oh this is a bunch of baloney go back

1626
01:07:21,420 --> 01:07:18,609
upstairs and go to sleep

1627
01:07:24,299 --> 01:07:21,430
and he turns around and he goes back

1628
01:07:27,299 --> 01:07:24,309
upstairs and he goes to sleep now that

1629
01:07:29,549 --> 01:07:27,309
defies all logic right there's this

1630
01:07:32,009 --> 01:07:29,559
tremendous commotion downstairs there's

1631
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:32,019
this huge strobe of light you're worried

1632
01:07:35,519 --> 01:07:33,490
about you know all sorts of different

1633
01:07:38,670 --> 01:07:35,529
things you walk down the stairs and then

1634
01:07:42,930 --> 01:07:38,680
oh no there's you just hear that over

1635
01:07:46,049 --> 01:07:42,940
and over again which again this is the

1636
01:07:48,029 --> 01:07:46,059
tension between the expanded

1637
01:07:52,529 --> 01:07:48,039
consciousness is great and we're all

1638
01:07:55,470 --> 01:07:52,539
going to be as one and that there is

1639
01:08:00,289 --> 01:07:55,480
some technology to consciousness that

1640
01:08:02,789 --> 01:08:00,299
other people and/or beings and or

1641
01:08:05,539 --> 01:08:02,799
advanced human intelligence have

1642
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:05,549
mastered in a way that we haven't and

1643
01:08:12,599 --> 01:08:09,250
even that is kind of hinted at in your

1644
01:08:14,759 --> 01:08:12,609
movie with Jen Green who is really far

1645
01:08:17,249 --> 01:08:14,769
from a villain so I don't want to keep

1646
01:08:18,990 --> 01:08:17,259
spinning him as that as he says hey one

1647
01:08:20,610 --> 01:08:19,000
of the things that bugged me is we

1648
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:20,620
didn't just try and find that the best

1649
01:08:24,910 --> 01:08:23,330
freakin people at doing this

1650
01:08:26,980 --> 01:08:24,920
and rather than six Oh Russell's out

1651
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:26,990
there saying no this is a gift to

1652
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:29,810
humanity and being psychic means that

1653
01:08:34,660 --> 01:08:32,330
we're all connected in cricket greens

1654
01:08:36,850 --> 01:08:34,670
like yada yada yada I want to find the

1655
01:08:39,340 --> 01:08:36,860
guy who's the best on the earth at doing

1656
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:39,350
this so that I can operationalize it

1657
01:08:47,290 --> 01:08:44,930
protect and weaponize so neither one has

1658
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:47,300
mutually exclusive neither neither point

1659
01:08:53,020 --> 01:08:49,730
of view is is is mutually exclusive I

1660
01:08:54,790 --> 01:08:53,030
mean are there things that are out there

1661
01:08:56,290 --> 01:08:54,800
that we don't understand I mean I don't

1662
01:08:59,460 --> 01:08:56,300
claim to know everything you know and

1663
01:09:01,540 --> 01:08:59,470
and are there experiencers of

1664
01:09:04,630 --> 01:09:01,550
extraterrestrial stuff that have had

1665
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:04,640
really you know valid stories about

1666
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:05,690
stuff just like what you're talking

1667
01:09:08,740 --> 01:09:07,010
about absolutely I don't just count

1668
01:09:10,480 --> 01:09:08,750
anything because I don't know well

1669
01:09:13,030 --> 01:09:10,490
they're in your movie right I mean Joe

1670
01:09:15,850 --> 01:09:13,040
joe says he experienced that in English

1671
01:09:17,440 --> 01:09:15,860
once as they beg sure sure sure sure the

1672
01:09:19,510 --> 01:09:17,450
movie has to draw a point and it can't

1673
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:19,520
talk about everything when that stuff

1674
01:09:24,070 --> 01:09:21,530
does send things in a whole other

1675
01:09:26,350 --> 01:09:24,080
direction because they're viewing Mars a

1676
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:26,360
million years ago and saying there's a

1677
01:09:30,610 --> 01:09:28,130
war on Mars and there's these giant

1678
01:09:32,260 --> 01:09:30,620
beings that are ETS and they're building

1679
01:09:35,530 --> 01:09:32,270
all these structures and then you have

1680
01:09:37,570 --> 01:09:35,540
people in your movie who say if Ingo

1681
01:09:40,090 --> 01:09:37,580
said it's true because Ingo never made

1682
01:09:41,770 --> 01:09:40,100
anything up and Ingo said that and so

1683
01:09:44,440 --> 01:09:41,780
don't know so what do you do with that

1684
01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:44,450
well first of all you know remote

1685
01:09:51,460 --> 01:09:48,560
viewing is always looking at potentials

1686
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:51,470
it's an imaginal skill you know and and

1687
01:09:54,460 --> 01:09:52,850
a lot of times like for instance and in

1688
01:09:56,110 --> 01:09:54,470
goes book penetration you know he talks

1689
01:09:58,960 --> 01:09:56,120
about seeing stuff on the far side of

1690
01:10:01,660 --> 01:09:58,970
the Moon noticing a present know the

1691
01:10:03,370 --> 01:10:01,670
presence noticing him you know and and

1692
01:10:05,380 --> 01:10:03,380
and then and then looking there again

1693
01:10:08,860 --> 01:10:05,390
and seeing nothing there you know so

1694
01:10:10,810 --> 01:10:08,870
it's it's it's a you know like I said

1695
01:10:15,130 --> 01:10:10,820
reality is a lot more complicated than

1696
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:15,140
we give it credit for and and it's but

1697
01:10:20,440 --> 01:10:17,090
the bottom line questions all of this

1698
01:10:25,090 --> 01:10:20,450
becomes very simply I think as Einstein

1699
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:25,100
said do we live in a in a universe where

1700
01:10:29,950 --> 01:10:27,010
we're victims where where there is

1701
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:29,960
basically no hope for us or do we live

1702
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:31,370
in a universe that's basically rooting

1703
01:10:35,460 --> 01:10:33,290
for us I'm paraphrasing but you know the

1704
01:10:37,060 --> 01:10:35,470
do we do we live in a potentially

1705
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:37,070
expansive universe that

1706
01:10:42,100 --> 01:10:40,970
have some control over and you know I

1707
01:10:44,050 --> 01:10:42,110
think that's really one of the

1708
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:44,060
fundamental questions of humanity is

1709
01:10:47,620 --> 01:10:45,650
like you know like what is our place in

1710
01:10:50,950 --> 01:10:47,630
this universe like you know like and I

1711
01:10:54,070 --> 01:10:50,960
think that if we're figuring it out now

1712
01:10:55,450 --> 01:10:54,080
and there are other cultures out there

1713
01:10:57,820 --> 01:10:55,460
then they may have already figured it

1714
01:10:59,710 --> 01:10:57,830
out and and there may be cultures with

1715
01:11:01,960 --> 01:10:59,720
different agendas we don't know you know

1716
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:01,970
so you know who knows here's another

1717
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:04,370
fundamental question that we could kind

1718
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:07,850
of dig into as we move towards wrapping

1719
01:11:14,260 --> 01:11:11,450
this thing up if there is this extended

1720
01:11:18,370 --> 01:11:14,270
consciousness realm and if there are

1721
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:18,380
beings that have more power than we do

1722
01:11:24,370 --> 01:11:21,850
should we seek to marshal their forces

1723
01:11:28,030 --> 01:11:24,380
because that is what's at play here

1724
01:11:29,620 --> 01:11:28,040
should I do the magic thing that's part

1725
01:11:32,590 --> 01:11:29,630
of the shamanistic thing that you

1726
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:32,600
mentioned in Siberia but it's also part

1727
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:35,210
of the et contact thing it's kind of

1728
01:11:40,180 --> 01:11:37,370
hard weeks are there space brothers out

1729
01:11:43,150 --> 01:11:40,190
there or are there kind of the evil

1730
01:11:45,700 --> 01:11:43,160
alien reptilians out there and do we

1731
01:11:49,630 --> 01:11:45,710
want to somehow contact them and get

1732
01:11:52,060 --> 01:11:49,640
them to help us in this world or are we

1733
01:11:55,480 --> 01:11:52,070
should we not even play that game and

1734
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:55,490
transcend I think it's undeniable when

1735
01:12:00,880 --> 01:11:57,050
we look at the fact that people are

1736
01:12:04,510 --> 01:12:00,890
practicing ritualistic practices in

1737
01:12:06,910 --> 01:12:04,520
order to marshal forces in this extended

1738
01:12:09,790 --> 01:12:06,920
consciousness realm that just can't be

1739
01:12:14,380 --> 01:12:09,800
disputed it also can't be disputed that

1740
01:12:17,380 --> 01:12:14,390
the MKULTRA program was not unwilling to

1741
01:12:20,740 --> 01:12:17,390
try and marshal those same forces and

1742
01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:20,750
it's also clear that in some cases that

1743
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:22,880
they've done they've done that and that

1744
01:12:29,470 --> 01:12:25,130
intelligence agencies around the world

1745
01:12:33,460 --> 01:12:29,480
including Britain and Aleister Crowley

1746
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:33,470
and Parsons on our side have have looked

1747
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:35,570
into that for the longest time as well

1748
01:12:43,090 --> 01:12:39,370
so what about that what about using

1749
01:12:47,530 --> 01:12:43,100
those forces for good or for evil

1750
01:12:48,580 --> 01:12:47,540
well it'll sound really philosophical

1751
01:12:51,129 --> 01:12:48,590
but I think that whatever

1752
01:12:54,550 --> 01:12:51,139
you look for you'll probably find you

1753
01:12:57,220 --> 01:12:54,560
know I think that I think that the only

1754
01:13:00,729 --> 01:12:57,230
issue with that is that in a sense if

1755
01:13:03,580 --> 01:13:00,739
you're looking to do harm you're really

1756
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:03,590
harming yourself you know and and it's

1757
01:13:07,300 --> 01:13:05,330
like when you really start to kind of

1758
01:13:10,060 --> 01:13:07,310
like understand where all of this kind

1759
01:13:12,370 --> 01:13:10,070
of leads you philosophically I am

1760
01:13:14,290 --> 01:13:12,380
inextricably linked to you you know

1761
01:13:19,030 --> 01:13:14,300
everybody else is inextricably linked to

1762
01:13:21,970 --> 01:13:19,040
me so when I start like you know trying

1763
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:21,980
to use my magical powers to harm someone

1764
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:24,170
in effect what I'm doing is I'm harming

1765
01:13:28,060 --> 01:13:26,090
myself and usually that'll just bounce

1766
01:13:29,919 --> 01:13:28,070
right back at you right I mean you know

1767
01:13:31,930 --> 01:13:29,929
didn't work out too well for Hitler you

1768
01:13:33,430 --> 01:13:31,940
know didn't work out too well for you

1769
01:13:35,740 --> 01:13:33,440
know everybody else that seems to have

1770
01:13:37,620 --> 01:13:35,750
tried that now can you use psychic

1771
01:13:40,750 --> 01:13:37,630
ability to create some sort of a

1772
01:13:45,070 --> 01:13:40,760
negative effect in someone or lead them

1773
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:45,080
the wrong way or whatever I think that

1774
01:13:49,870 --> 01:13:47,690
that a coherent mind is probably the

1775
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:49,880
most powerful thing on this planet you

1776
01:13:55,959 --> 01:13:52,730
know and and if you have a coherent mind

1777
01:13:57,760 --> 01:13:55,969
nothing can touch you you know it's what

1778
01:13:59,830 --> 01:13:57,770
you believe because all of this

1779
01:14:01,750 --> 01:13:59,840
basically you know now comes down to

1780
01:14:04,660 --> 01:14:01,760
belief systems and what do you believe

1781
01:14:08,290 --> 01:14:04,670
is going to work and in if you choose to

1782
01:14:09,879 --> 01:14:08,300
believe in really dark stuff then you

1783
01:14:11,919 --> 01:14:09,889
know okay well you best the world that

1784
01:14:14,140 --> 01:14:11,929
you're living in but I don't have to

1785
01:14:16,209 --> 01:14:14,150
share it with you are all ETS like this

1786
01:14:18,399 --> 01:14:16,219
benevolent thing that they're trying to

1787
01:14:20,950 --> 01:14:18,409
help us I don't know you know but it

1788
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:20,960
would seem to me you know that just like

1789
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:23,690
human beings have different agendas you

1790
01:14:27,399 --> 01:14:26,090
know probably somebody on some other

1791
01:14:29,500 --> 01:14:27,409
planet would have maybe competing

1792
01:14:30,820 --> 01:14:29,510
agendas as well you know again we just

1793
01:14:33,490 --> 01:14:30,830
like we can't think of government as

1794
01:14:36,070 --> 01:14:33,500
this one monolithic force we can't think

1795
01:14:38,770 --> 01:14:36,080
of this phenomenon that includes psychic

1796
01:14:41,770 --> 01:14:38,780
ability and et's and all these other

1797
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:41,780
things as just one thing you know it's

1798
01:14:45,850 --> 01:14:43,610
it's maybe aspects of the same thing

1799
01:14:49,450 --> 01:14:45,860
aspects of consciousness in some way or

1800
01:14:50,830 --> 01:14:49,460
form but I think at the end of day this

1801
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:50,840
is all going to come down to how

1802
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:52,489
powerful do we realize that we are

1803
01:14:55,810 --> 01:14:55,010
ourselves you know and and that's really

1804
01:14:59,020 --> 01:14:55,820
what this is about

1805
01:15:02,350 --> 01:14:59,030
I don't disagree with you and I think

1806
01:15:05,940 --> 01:15:02,360
that's actually very deeply spiritual

1807
01:15:10,690 --> 01:15:05,950
I do think it's hard for people to

1808
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:10,700
process that inside of one the country

1809
01:15:15,850 --> 01:15:13,610
that we live in for both we both live in

1810
01:15:19,060 --> 01:15:15,860
the United States of America we both

1811
01:15:22,570 --> 01:15:19,070
deal with the contradictions that we are

1812
01:15:25,450 --> 01:15:22,580
in terms of we do put ourselves out

1813
01:15:28,990 --> 01:15:25,460
there as being this beacon of Liberty

1814
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:29,000
and truth and justice and yet we look at

1815
01:15:32,260 --> 01:15:31,130
our history we particularly look at our

1816
01:15:34,810 --> 01:15:32,270
history of some of the intelligence

1817
01:15:37,950 --> 01:15:34,820
agencies and we know that's not our

1818
01:15:40,210 --> 01:15:37,960
history and we know we've done the most

1819
01:15:41,980 --> 01:15:40,220
horrible things in our hemisphere we

1820
01:15:44,940 --> 01:15:41,990
just tried to overthrow every car that

1821
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:44,950
we could with with coos we've

1822
01:15:50,140 --> 01:15:47,090
assassinated some of our own people

1823
01:15:53,470 --> 01:15:50,150
we've done Manchurian Candidate stuff we

1824
01:15:56,440 --> 01:15:53,480
fried cocaine in and mass doses and

1825
01:15:58,420 --> 01:15:56,450
we're at least turned a blind eye to the

1826
01:16:02,200 --> 01:15:58,430
cracker I mean you could go on and on

1827
01:16:07,270 --> 01:16:02,210
and on we're dealing with that we're

1828
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:07,280
dealing with our complicity in being who

1829
01:16:14,710 --> 01:16:11,690
we are so again I Bravo I mean it's a

1830
01:16:17,350 --> 01:16:14,720
fantastic film and it generates for

1831
01:16:19,990 --> 01:16:17,360
anyone who's paying attention the film

1832
01:16:22,330 --> 01:16:20,000
brings those questions to the fore

1833
01:16:24,820 --> 01:16:22,340
because you pepper it with all these

1834
01:16:26,530 --> 01:16:24,830
little tidbits Lance like I was

1835
01:16:29,050 --> 01:16:26,540
mentioning about the guy who gets on the

1836
01:16:30,910 --> 01:16:29,060
elevator and says yeah yeah I know from

1837
01:16:32,980 --> 01:16:30,920
my most trusted sources that all this

1838
01:16:35,710 --> 01:16:32,990
work is still going on and you go what

1839
01:16:37,630 --> 01:16:35,720
yeah something that's debated over and

1840
01:16:39,220 --> 01:16:37,640
over again and on the internet and all

1841
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:39,230
these channels and stuff like that so

1842
01:16:43,900 --> 01:16:41,930
it's a great film and the dialogue could

1843
01:16:47,470 --> 01:16:43,910
go on and has to go on but at least this

1844
01:16:48,940 --> 01:16:47,480
is a Kickstarter for it yeah and I and I

1845
01:16:52,540 --> 01:16:48,950
think the best that's just it it's like

1846
01:16:54,100 --> 01:16:52,550
you know if you if you can accept sort

1847
01:16:56,950 --> 01:16:54,110
of the reality of the work that's been

1848
01:16:58,780 --> 01:16:56,960
done then then it opens you up to at

1849
01:17:00,880 --> 01:16:58,790
least consider what's possible like

1850
01:17:02,950 --> 01:17:00,890
what's possible you know personally and

1851
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:02,960
what's possible collectively and also

1852
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:04,490
what's possible in terms of what your

1853
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:06,530
government is doing or and or like I

1854
01:17:10,330 --> 01:17:08,210
said most likely it's not really the

1855
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:10,340
government anymore it's most likely when

1856
01:17:14,890 --> 01:17:13,130
when you know he said that and he said

1857
01:17:16,180 --> 01:17:14,900
he said you know he'd be shocked and

1858
01:17:17,170 --> 01:17:16,190
people weren't still doing it

1859
01:17:18,670 --> 01:17:17,180
they're not doing it in government

1860
01:17:20,950 --> 01:17:18,680
they're not doing it with any oversight

1861
01:17:21,820 --> 01:17:20,960
anybody that has been publicly working

1862
01:17:24,700 --> 01:17:21,830
with the government

1863
01:17:26,980 --> 01:17:24,710
that's not still very much in the middle

1864
01:17:29,470 --> 01:17:26,990
of it is no longer involved like I don't

1865
01:17:32,740 --> 01:17:29,480
believe that that Joe mcmoneagle or any

1866
01:17:35,140 --> 01:17:32,750
of these other guys are still you know

1867
01:17:37,030 --> 01:17:35,150
on actively is that even a meaningful a

1868
01:17:38,950 --> 01:17:37,040
distinction as you just talked about

1869
01:17:42,700 --> 01:17:38,960
yesterday I mean these guys are masters

1870
01:17:45,340 --> 01:17:42,710
at all that stuff so they set up some

1871
01:17:47,020 --> 01:17:45,350
phony baloneys CIA cut out organization

1872
01:17:49,060 --> 01:17:47,030
that does it and yes passes the

1873
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:49,070
information back I mean that's not an

1874
01:17:53,710 --> 01:17:51,770
important distinction but the obvious

1875
01:17:55,870 --> 01:17:53,720
point that I think comes through to you

1876
01:17:57,310 --> 01:17:55,880
why would you stop doing this right why

1877
01:17:59,290 --> 01:17:57,320
would you ever stop doing this you would

1878
01:18:01,690 --> 01:17:59,300
never stop doing this right it would be

1879
01:18:04,450 --> 01:18:01,700
irresponsible to stop doing this because

1880
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:04,460
you can't trust that everyone else is

1881
01:18:09,490 --> 01:18:07,730
stopping doing it the Chinese this this

1882
01:18:13,330 --> 01:18:09,500
goes back to an earlier comment when we

1883
01:18:15,430 --> 01:18:13,340
were talking about the the way that the

1884
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:15,440
thing has looked at the way this sort of

1885
01:18:18,310 --> 01:18:16,850
psychic ability has looked at today

1886
01:18:20,410 --> 01:18:18,320
compared to the way it was looked at in

1887
01:18:22,900 --> 01:18:20,420
the 80s in the 80s they didn't really

1888
01:18:24,340 --> 01:18:22,910
have their act totally together in terms

1889
01:18:25,030 --> 01:18:24,350
of like what they wanted to use this for

1890
01:18:27,730 --> 01:18:25,040
yet

1891
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:27,740
now we're talking decades later and it's

1892
01:18:35,230 --> 01:18:30,970
a much more marginalized subject and

1893
01:18:37,870 --> 01:18:35,240
it's kept to the sort of fringes because

1894
01:18:39,850 --> 01:18:37,880
I believe that's convenient for people

1895
01:18:41,740 --> 01:18:39,860
who are actually using it to sort of to

1896
01:18:42,940 --> 01:18:41,750
say yeah we're not using this and we

1897
01:18:44,740 --> 01:18:42,950
fooled around with it and it was like

1898
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:44,750
there was really nothing to it and and

1899
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:47,090
in fact you know you probably find that

1900
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:49,010
most modern governments are probably in

1901
01:18:53,740 --> 01:18:52,130
some way shape or form using things like

1902
01:18:55,060 --> 01:18:53,750
remote viewing and other kind of psychic

1903
01:18:57,240 --> 01:18:55,070
techniques I'm probably trying all kinds

1904
01:18:59,770 --> 01:18:57,250
of crazy things like just like you said

1905
01:19:02,710 --> 01:18:59,780
just to see what what sticks to the wall

1906
01:19:03,790 --> 01:19:02,720
and what works you know because we know

1907
01:19:05,170 --> 01:19:03,800
that there's something there and we

1908
01:19:06,550 --> 01:19:05,180
don't understand it and we don't

1909
01:19:08,830 --> 01:19:06,560
understand something we want to

1910
01:19:10,870 --> 01:19:08,840
understand it you know and so it that's

1911
01:19:14,020 --> 01:19:10,880
what it becomes about and especially if

1912
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:14,030
it's useful you know and and so we don't

1913
01:19:18,100 --> 01:19:15,890
know how far down the rabbit hole this

1914
01:19:21,310 --> 01:19:18,110
goes and we can talk about that all day

1915
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:21,320
long but for me the much more important

1916
01:19:26,260 --> 01:19:24,410
takeaway is what does it mean to you

1917
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:26,270
what does it mean me you know like what

1918
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:28,730
does it mean to human potential you know

1919
01:19:32,500 --> 01:19:29,930
like cuz that's that's really the

1920
01:19:34,780 --> 01:19:32,510
reason to talk about it you know it's

1921
01:19:36,580 --> 01:19:34,790
like if this stuff's been hidden since

1922
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:36,590
the days of the guy on top of the Mayan

1923
01:19:42,030 --> 01:19:38,690
temple you know sacrificing victims or

1924
01:19:46,300 --> 01:19:42,040
you know as the guy on top of the Mayan

1925
01:19:49,030 --> 01:19:46,310
pyramid who's sacrificing human beings

1926
01:19:52,510 --> 01:19:49,040
and pulling their heart out he's playing

1927
01:19:55,990 --> 01:19:52,520
a different game than you and I want to

1928
01:19:59,440 --> 01:19:56,000
play he's not playing the be your

1929
01:20:02,230 --> 01:19:59,450
greatest self transcend all of this and

1930
01:20:07,030 --> 01:20:02,240
I think a lot of people struggle with

1931
01:20:11,500 --> 01:20:07,040
why would I not play the game of getting

1932
01:20:14,020 --> 01:20:11,510
what I want now in this life why I

1933
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:14,030
wouldn't play that why I would say the

1934
01:20:19,630 --> 01:20:17,090
what you said the beautiful kind of

1935
01:20:22,660 --> 01:20:19,640
spiritual not duel you know to harm

1936
01:20:25,330 --> 01:20:22,670
myself is to harm everyone why would I

1937
01:20:27,190 --> 01:20:25,340
you know stab my left hand to get back

1938
01:20:29,290 --> 01:20:27,200
at my right hand you know kind of thing

1939
01:20:31,990 --> 01:20:29,300
we get that on one level but on the

1940
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:32,000
other on the other hand we do look back

1941
01:20:35,470 --> 01:20:34,130
at that Mayan temple amigo no we get

1942
01:20:37,690 --> 01:20:35,480
that this shit's been going on forever

1943
01:20:39,910 --> 01:20:37,700
yeah but we've also get that people have

1944
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:39,920
been doing stupid things forever I mean

1945
01:20:45,340 --> 01:20:41,690
and and it's like that you know you're

1946
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:45,350
you're talking about you know fear is a

1947
01:20:50,020 --> 01:20:48,050
very very effective tool you know like

1948
01:20:53,950 --> 01:20:50,030
it's a very very effective tactic of

1949
01:20:56,020 --> 01:20:53,960
control you know and and it's also

1950
01:20:58,060 --> 01:20:56,030
you're talking about superstition and

1951
01:20:59,740 --> 01:20:58,070
and and when someone's what are we

1952
01:21:02,890 --> 01:20:59,750
talking about in terms of superstition I

1953
01:21:06,850 --> 01:21:02,900
mean so the Chinese roll into Tibet and

1954
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:06,860
they pull the Tibetan monks out of there

1955
01:21:11,380 --> 01:21:09,530
out of their monasteries and they force

1956
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:11,390
them to have sex in the street with

1957
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:14,210
women and they do all this other Q mili

1958
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:16,970
a ting Abu Ghraib kind of stuff mm-hmm

1959
01:21:20,590 --> 01:21:18,890
that's because that's what they're

1960
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:20,600
saying they start we're fighting

1961
01:21:25,090 --> 01:21:22,610
superstition and we're all looking at a

1962
01:21:27,250 --> 01:21:25,100
go no that's not superstition they are

1963
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:27,260
accessing and manipulating consciousness

1964
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:30,410
in the highest most profound way so be

1965
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:32,330
careful with what we call superstition I

1966
01:21:37,450 --> 01:21:34,850
don't think I don't think meditation and

1967
01:21:39,820 --> 01:21:37,460
and consciousness manipulation is

1968
01:21:41,830 --> 01:21:39,830
superstition no that's a good point and

1969
01:21:42,470 --> 01:21:41,840
and it's not it's not what I mean is

1970
01:21:44,870 --> 01:21:42,480
that

1971
01:21:47,810 --> 01:21:44,880
you can and I didn't finish my previous

1972
01:21:50,660 --> 01:21:47,820
point there are real effects that you

1973
01:21:52,670 --> 01:21:50,670
can find through consciousness and those

1974
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:52,680
effects are not explainable so what that

1975
01:21:57,530 --> 01:21:55,170
leads to is a whole lot of ritual and a

1976
01:21:59,570 --> 01:21:57,540
lot of other BS that gets involved in

1977
01:22:02,300 --> 01:21:59,580
the way that probably has absolutely

1978
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:02,310
nothing to do with the effect but that's

1979
01:22:06,230 --> 01:22:04,410
what superstition is I mean superstition

1980
01:22:09,110 --> 01:22:06,240
is okay I saw an effect that I don't

1981
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:09,120
understand so now I'm going to go you

1982
01:22:12,770 --> 01:22:10,890
know get a lucky rabbit's foot and I'm

1983
01:22:14,270 --> 01:22:12,780
gonna kill a cat and I'm gonna you know

1984
01:22:15,470 --> 01:22:14,280
go do all these other crazy things to

1985
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:15,480
try to make it happen again

1986
01:22:20,180 --> 01:22:17,970
and if you believe strongly enough that

1987
01:22:21,230 --> 01:22:20,190
you want that to happen maybe you'll

1988
01:22:22,490 --> 01:22:21,240
make it happen again but it's not

1989
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:22,500
because you went and got the lucky

1990
01:22:26,270 --> 01:22:23,850
rabbit's foot or did any of these other

1991
01:22:28,430 --> 01:22:26,280
weird things you know it's just because

1992
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:28,440
you build that into your belief system

1993
01:22:34,190 --> 01:22:30,330
and and and what we're really talking

1994
01:22:36,380 --> 01:22:34,200
about is the fact that human imagination

1995
01:22:38,540 --> 01:22:36,390
is a very powerful thing and it acts as

1996
01:22:40,610 --> 01:22:38,550
an enabler you know and and that's

1997
01:22:42,440 --> 01:22:40,620
really what we're talking about I get

1998
01:22:43,610 --> 01:22:42,450
you I get you but that's maybe not all

1999
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:43,620
we're talking about

2000
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:44,970
like I'm saying and that's the

2001
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:46,890
intriguing thing about ET because I

2002
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:48,330
could talk about spirits all day long

2003
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:50,730
and people are just oh yeah superstition

2004
01:22:53,780 --> 01:22:52,530
bla bla bla but it's not we know it's

2005
01:22:55,220 --> 01:22:53,790
not because we know when you have a

2006
01:22:56,810 --> 01:22:55,230
near-death experience you're an

2007
01:22:58,700 --> 01:22:56,820
accounting spirits we know mediums are

2008
01:23:00,470 --> 01:22:58,710
encountering experience and we can test

2009
01:23:02,230 --> 01:23:00,480
medium scientifically in the lab and

2010
01:23:05,330 --> 01:23:02,240
that's real and we know we do

2011
01:23:07,250 --> 01:23:05,340
experiments with DMT like Rick Strassman

2012
01:23:09,890 --> 01:23:07,260
did and they're encountering spirits and

2013
01:23:11,420 --> 01:23:09,900
they're encountering eet so but let's

2014
01:23:13,550 --> 01:23:11,430
take spirits out of it because it throws

2015
01:23:16,190 --> 01:23:13,560
everyone the wrong way let's and I'll go

2016
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:16,200
back to my story ET is manipulating

2017
01:23:19,820 --> 01:23:17,610
consciousness we have just too much

2018
01:23:21,470 --> 01:23:19,830
evidence of that to look otherwise and

2019
01:23:23,450 --> 01:23:21,480
we also know that the government like in

2020
01:23:25,310 --> 01:23:23,460
Wilbert Smith met oh they understood

2021
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:25,320
that they're playing in that realm all

2022
01:23:29,510 --> 01:23:28,080
communication with ET is telepathic we

2023
01:23:31,430 --> 01:23:29,520
don't know how to do that may know how

2024
01:23:33,860 --> 01:23:31,440
to do that so great I don't think we can

2025
01:23:36,110 --> 01:23:33,870
immediately say all the superstitious

2026
01:23:37,940 --> 01:23:36,120
stuff is superstitious stuff

2027
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:37,950
what if it's both what if it's our human

2028
01:23:44,300 --> 01:23:41,010
nature to add this layer of crazy

2029
01:23:46,940 --> 01:23:44,310
superstition stuff but there's also this

2030
01:23:49,460 --> 01:23:46,950
Hungry Ghost element to it this extended

2031
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:49,470
consciousness manipulation element to it

2032
01:23:54,740 --> 01:23:51,930
that we don't understand yet well take

2033
01:23:57,170 --> 01:23:54,750
for example the octave remote viewer

2034
01:23:59,930 --> 01:23:57,180
looking at a target many

2035
01:24:01,670 --> 01:23:59,940
or or for instance a whole bunch of mass

2036
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:01,680
consciousness looking at something at

2037
01:24:05,030 --> 01:24:02,730
the same time like the

2038
01:24:06,650 --> 01:24:05,040
superconsciousness bro or yeah global

2039
01:24:10,310 --> 01:24:06,660
consciousness project heart math all

2040
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:10,320
that stuff well you know when when

2041
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:12,090
there's a lot of attention place or a

2042
01:24:15,740 --> 01:24:13,770
lot of belief placed on something it

2043
01:24:18,230 --> 01:24:15,750
gives it power you know so so I

2044
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:18,240
literally could walk into a ancient

2045
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:20,730
Egyptian temple and in a fine with the

2046
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:23,850
right psychic maybe pick up on on you

2047
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:25,650
know some ancient deity that once

2048
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:27,330
inhabited that temple am I really

2049
01:24:32,030 --> 01:24:29,610
picking up on that or am i picking up on

2050
01:24:34,910 --> 01:24:32,040
the belief system of the consciousness

2051
01:24:36,140 --> 01:24:34,920
that once highly believed that you know

2052
01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:36,150
like like that's that's the thing it's

2053
01:24:42,740 --> 01:24:39,450
like if I'm like like okay I recently

2054
01:24:44,180 --> 01:24:42,750
had a remote viewer call me and say if

2055
01:24:46,130 --> 01:24:44,190
you have any property on the east coast

2056
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:46,140
you need to get out because there's

2057
01:24:48,950 --> 01:24:47,760
gonna be a huge tsunami wave and it's

2058
01:24:52,370 --> 01:24:48,960
coming to the East Coast it's good

2059
01:24:55,430 --> 01:24:52,380
sometime in this September of 2018 you

2060
01:24:58,370 --> 01:24:55,440
know and and and I got really upset and

2061
01:25:00,440 --> 01:24:58,380
I said I said this is [\h__\h] because

2062
01:25:01,910 --> 01:25:00,450
how many times have had remote viewers

2063
01:25:03,470 --> 01:25:01,920
made these kinds of predictions other

2064
01:25:05,570 --> 01:25:03,480
psychics other prophets other things

2065
01:25:07,310 --> 01:25:05,580
made these do-or-die predictions they

2066
01:25:09,290 --> 01:25:07,320
never happened the way that you think

2067
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:09,300
it's gonna happen because no matter how

2068
01:25:13,460 --> 01:25:11,130
much do we and and by the way she said

2069
01:25:14,510 --> 01:25:13,470
oh but no there was like twelve remote

2070
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:14,520
viewers and they were all really

2071
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:15,930
well-known and they all came up with the

2072
01:25:20,980 --> 01:25:17,730
same thing it's gonna happen this time

2073
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:20,990
you know and I said well first of all

2074
01:25:26,570 --> 01:25:24,330
you don't know if if that is gonna

2075
01:25:28,130 --> 01:25:26,580
happen or if somebody had a bad dream

2076
01:25:30,980 --> 01:25:28,140
that it was going to happen and then

2077
01:25:32,300 --> 01:25:30,990
they contaminated your sample and and

2078
01:25:33,830 --> 01:25:32,310
they put that into the remote viewing

2079
01:25:36,260 --> 01:25:33,840
and now everybody's seeing the same

2080
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:36,270
thing and and even if you were seeing

2081
01:25:39,980 --> 01:25:38,010
even if you take something like tarot

2082
01:25:42,020 --> 01:25:39,990
cards and you look at tarot cards and

2083
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:42,030
you're asking like gee is my is my

2084
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:44,010
girlfriend gonna cheat on you and you

2085
01:25:48,650 --> 01:25:46,050
put all these tarot cards out and and

2086
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:48,660
then the psychic says yes absolutely you

2087
01:25:51,530 --> 01:25:50,250
know and then and then you go home and

2088
01:25:53,480 --> 01:25:51,540
you break up with your girlfriend or you

2089
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:53,490
cause her to cheat or or for that matter

2090
01:25:57,860 --> 01:25:55,410
even just the act of you looking at

2091
01:26:00,380 --> 01:25:57,870
those cards now you as the observer have

2092
01:26:02,330 --> 01:26:00,390
a vote in that and as to which timeline

2093
01:26:04,370 --> 01:26:02,340
you're gonna land on so so there's so

2094
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:04,380
there's all of these different kind of

2095
01:26:08,750 --> 01:26:06,570
aspects to consciousness and it's

2096
01:26:10,370 --> 01:26:08,760
intangible it doesn't you know

2097
01:26:12,740 --> 01:26:10,380
really apply like when you look at any

2098
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:12,750
tea are you really seeing any tea or are

2099
01:26:16,190 --> 01:26:14,130
you seeing something within a

2100
01:26:17,570 --> 01:26:16,200
holographic matrix that's pretending to

2101
01:26:18,229 --> 01:26:17,580
be an ETA are you just talking about

2102
01:26:20,900 --> 01:26:18,239
energy

2103
01:26:23,030 --> 01:26:20,910
no I we have and we have you no evidence

2104
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:23,040
of that we have evidence of a eighth

2105
01:26:27,770 --> 01:26:24,810
word trickster but it's the common term

2106
01:26:30,290 --> 01:26:27,780
that everyone uses there's a deceptive

2107
01:26:32,690 --> 01:26:30,300
aspect to that spiritual realm that we

2108
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:32,700
don't at all understand either right but

2109
01:26:36,710 --> 01:26:35,010
but it's like we we can have an

2110
01:26:38,630 --> 01:26:36,720
encounter with an extraterrestrial

2111
01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:38,640
there's tons and tons and tons of stuff

2112
01:26:46,220 --> 01:26:42,090
in the record of actual material things

2113
01:26:49,220 --> 01:26:46,230
that have been found actual material you

2114
01:26:51,050 --> 01:26:49,230
know landing sites photographs you know

2115
01:26:54,130 --> 01:26:51,060
scars like there's there's all of this

2116
01:26:56,870 --> 01:26:54,140
stuff that's real but but again are we

2117
01:26:58,330 --> 01:26:56,880
we can't say definitively what it is

2118
01:27:00,830 --> 01:26:58,340
because we don't know is it really

2119
01:27:02,630 --> 01:27:00,840
extraterrestrial we don't know because

2120
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:02,640
we don't know you know so but we can

2121
01:27:06,290 --> 01:27:04,890
it's fun to talk about and and it's and

2122
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:06,300
it's it's interesting and I would

2123
01:27:10,070 --> 01:27:08,850
probably posit to say that that if

2124
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:10,080
you're actually going to believe in this

2125
01:27:14,140 --> 01:27:12,210
consensus reality we're in that it's a

2126
01:27:16,340 --> 01:27:14,150
huge universe and we would be pretty

2127
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:16,350
dense to think that there's no other

2128
01:27:24,229 --> 01:27:20,250
life in it but but but I will say that

2129
01:27:27,290 --> 01:27:24,239
that even that is inextricably linked to

2130
01:27:30,620 --> 01:27:27,300
our observation of it you know and and

2131
01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:30,630
uh you know I've seen UFO summoner's you

2132
01:27:34,940 --> 01:27:32,370
can sit there and do a meditation and

2133
01:27:37,310 --> 01:27:34,950
create like lights in the sky and stuff

2134
01:27:38,690 --> 01:27:37,320
like that are they creating an actual et

2135
01:27:39,170 --> 01:27:38,700
encounter or are they doing something

2136
01:27:41,660 --> 01:27:39,180
else

2137
01:27:44,510 --> 01:27:41,670
you know we don't know more and more

2138
01:27:46,700 --> 01:27:44,520
weirdness so folks we've gotten way off

2139
01:27:49,729 --> 01:27:46,710
of the trail but maybe we haven't too

2140
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:49,739
much if you haven't seen third eye spies

2141
01:27:56,840 --> 01:27:53,850
watch it if you saw it a while ago when

2142
01:27:58,880 --> 01:27:56,850
it first came out watch it again after

2143
01:28:02,000 --> 01:27:58,890
this interview and maybe after getting

2144
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:02,010
to know Lance a little bit more and the

2145
01:28:06,770 --> 01:28:05,130
deeper spiritual journey that he's on

2146
01:28:09,370 --> 01:28:06,780
that you can tell from this interview

2147
01:28:11,990 --> 01:28:09,380
and see if you don't see those threads

2148
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:12,000
coming out in the movie more and more

2149
01:28:16,100 --> 01:28:14,130
Lance you've been tremendously generous

2150
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:16,110
and sharing your time with us tell us

2151
01:28:21,260 --> 01:28:18,570
what else is going on it we did talk a

2152
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:21,270
little bit about some projects that are

2153
01:28:24,350 --> 01:28:22,290
just fast and

2154
01:28:27,590 --> 01:28:24,360
that you're working on what can you tell

2155
01:28:30,620 --> 01:28:27,600
us about what's coming up well we're

2156
01:28:31,430 --> 01:28:30,630
definitely going to be shopping a TV

2157
01:28:33,110 --> 01:28:31,440
series soon

2158
01:28:37,100 --> 01:28:33,120
you know like that'll be you know one of

2159
01:28:39,500 --> 01:28:37,110
the next things I'm working on and as I

2160
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:39,510
as I mentioned I'm producing and editing

2161
01:28:43,970 --> 01:28:42,330
a documentary with James Fox that he's

2162
01:28:46,190 --> 01:28:43,980
been working on for about five years on

2163
01:28:50,300 --> 01:28:46,200
the UFO phenomenon which which really is

2164
01:28:51,860 --> 01:28:50,310
basically the Silver Bullet of the

2165
01:28:55,390 --> 01:28:51,870
entire history of the phenomenon

2166
01:28:57,830 --> 01:28:55,400
starting in 1947 to the current day and

2167
01:28:59,120 --> 01:28:57,840
that'll be coming out sometime in the

2168
01:29:00,530 --> 01:28:59,130
spring and it's actually getting at the

2169
01:29:03,530 --> 01:29:00,540
Asheville release it's gonna be one of

2170
01:29:05,150 --> 01:29:03,540
the first UFO documentaries ever to get

2171
01:29:10,550 --> 01:29:05,160
a theatrical release so that'll be fun

2172
01:29:12,530 --> 01:29:10,560
um and and you know a YouTube channel I

2173
01:29:14,810 --> 01:29:12,540
was gonna play that excellent trailer

2174
01:29:16,820 --> 01:29:14,820
you did because again it's gonna send

2175
01:29:20,330 --> 01:29:16,830
people or reveal to people a whole

2176
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:20,340
different side of you that is interested

2177
01:29:24,710 --> 01:29:22,530
in this kind of deep spirituality are

2178
01:29:26,270 --> 01:29:24,720
you doing anything with that and what

2179
01:29:28,910 --> 01:29:26,280
are your interests along those lines

2180
01:29:30,830 --> 01:29:28,920
absolutely I mean I've actually I have

2181
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:30,840
just started to build up my YouTube

2182
01:29:36,470 --> 01:29:32,610
channel again after several years and

2183
01:29:38,750 --> 01:29:36,480
and then I had to go off to you know

2184
01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:38,760
produce this documentary with James like

2185
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:43,170
I had to kind of stop but I definitely

2186
01:29:48,860 --> 01:29:44,610
plan on building that and I definitely

2187
01:29:51,020 --> 01:29:48,870
plan on sort of making that a a really

2188
01:29:52,430 --> 01:29:51,030
interesting space to talk about human

2189
01:29:55,100 --> 01:29:52,440
consciousness and to talk a lot about

2190
01:29:57,890 --> 01:29:55,110
these different kinds of phenomenon that

2191
01:30:00,830 --> 01:29:57,900
we see from remote viewing to the UFO

2192
01:30:03,170 --> 01:30:00,840
subject to sort of spirituality to

2193
01:30:05,300 --> 01:30:03,180
cutting-edge science you know I have so

2194
01:30:07,150 --> 01:30:05,310
many friends who who are basically you

2195
01:30:09,350 --> 01:30:07,160
know just really on the cutting edge of

2196
01:30:11,570 --> 01:30:09,360
science that I would love to sort of

2197
01:30:13,430 --> 01:30:11,580
talk more about and you know get on

2198
01:30:15,740 --> 01:30:13,440
there so so yeah I definitely plan on

2199
01:30:18,890 --> 01:30:15,750
building that it's um the the channel is

2200
01:30:21,050 --> 01:30:18,900
called waking universe TV or you can

2201
01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:21,060
just search my name Lance munguia mu n

2202
01:30:26,390 --> 01:30:24,210
GI a as my last name and you'll find the

2203
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:26,400
YouTube channel and I do plan on sort of

2204
01:30:30,740 --> 01:30:28,770
becoming much more regular with like the

2205
01:30:32,210 --> 01:30:30,750
videos that I post soon I'm trying to

2206
01:30:32,810 --> 01:30:32,220
just kind of getting settled settled in

2207
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:32,820
here

2208
01:30:36,170 --> 01:30:35,370
well you you just look like a working

2209
01:30:37,490 --> 01:30:36,180
moviemaker

2210
01:30:40,610 --> 01:30:37,500
that's just awesome that's how you're

2211
01:30:43,310 --> 01:30:40,620
supposed to be well it's just terrific

2212
01:30:46,340 --> 01:30:43,320
having yon and again congratulations on

2213
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:46,350
this work and certainly we'll be keeping

2214
01:30:53,810 --> 01:30:49,290
an eye out for anything else that comes

2215
01:30:55,130 --> 01:30:53,820
out of Lance monkeys little lab oh one

2216
01:30:57,050 --> 01:30:55,140
other thing I want to mention there's a

2217
01:30:59,720 --> 01:30:57,060
possibility that my first film six

2218
01:31:01,220 --> 01:30:59,730
string samurai may be coming back to

2219
01:31:03,620 --> 01:31:01,230
theaters believe it or not you know it's

2220
01:31:05,090 --> 01:31:03,630
like over 20 years old and has

2221
01:31:05,300 --> 01:31:05,100
absolutely nothing to do with any of

2222
01:31:06,920 --> 01:31:05,310
this

2223
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:06,930
topic matter that we're talking about

2224
01:31:10,820 --> 01:31:08,730
but it's really kind of a fun kind of

2225
01:31:12,650 --> 01:31:10,830
cult movie you know visually interesting

2226
01:31:16,070 --> 01:31:12,660
kung fu film and there's been some

2227
01:31:17,900 --> 01:31:16,080
discussion about them releasing it so so

2228
01:31:20,750 --> 01:31:17,910
that'll be and that's an Amazon you said

2229
01:31:22,250 --> 01:31:20,760
right now is it on Amazon Prime - and so

2230
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:22,260
is there Dai spies you can get that on

2231
01:31:26,510 --> 01:31:24,330
Amazon Prime you can also find it just

2232
01:31:29,500 --> 01:31:26,520
on regular old Amazon if you don't have

2233
01:31:32,090 --> 01:31:29,510
Amazon Prime or you know Vimeo iTunes

2234
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:32,100
really anywhere digitally worldwide

2235
01:31:36,440 --> 01:31:34,050
third eye supplies is now available and

2236
01:31:38,660 --> 01:31:36,450
you can get DVDs or blu-rays if you want

2237
01:31:41,030 --> 01:31:38,670
them directly from my website which is

2238
01:31:43,670 --> 01:31:41,040
third eye spies comm you can go there

2239
01:31:45,620 --> 01:31:43,680
and you know join us on Facebook also a

2240
01:31:46,700 --> 01:31:45,630
third eye supplies and I really

2241
01:31:47,810 --> 01:31:46,710
appreciate you giving me the time for